<div>Dean, you can get a much better sense of how these temperaments compare by looking at the visual representations on my website <a href="http://www.rollingball.com">www.rollingball.com</a> . Almost every one of the temperaments on your list is there. The W group are well temperaments; the R and M groups are both meantone, emphasizing some pure thirds; the Q group is "quasi-equal" -- attempts at equal temperament before they had figured out how to use the beat rate of the thirds. The P group is Pythagorean, emphasizing pure fifths. Your W25 is probably Kellner not Keller -- one of the attempts at deciphering Bach's likely temperament. </div> <div> </div> <div>Jason  </div> <div>On 10/29/07, Dean May <<a href="mailto:deanmay@pianorebuilders.com">deanmay@pianorebuilders.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div lang="EN-US" vlink="purple" link="blue"> <div> Okay, Jon Page, Ed Foote and others routinely tune in WT without being asked to or telling their customers that is what they are doing. If they can, I guess I can as well, though it definitely moves me out of my comfort zone. I've experimented enough to satisfy myself that I like the sound. Good music is about tension and release. The WT scales seem to accentuate the tension/release adding very nice color to the music.   Frankly, being out of the concert circuit, 99+% of my customers will have no notice of the difference. One thing that concerns me is other tuners coming behind my work and being critical of the temperament I set, judging it against an ET standard, not realizing I have deliberately set a WT. Recently a very well respected older tech came behind one of my ET tunings of a Steinway L and was very complimentary to the owner. That was important to me. If I had set a WT however I doubt that he would have been so kind. Anybody have any ideas on how to head this off? I've thought of putting in a sticker with some kind of disclaimer stating that it is a WT scale inside the piano. I've also considered notifying all the area techs that this is what I am currently doing so they'll know. Does anyone else worry about this?   Colman 11 has been recommended by many as a good middle of the road WT. Broadwoods Best is another. Below is a list of all the historical temperaments offered on my PRCT and Coleman 10 or 11 do not seem to be represented. There is a couple of different Broadwood Best and one Broadwood usual.  What I have been using is the W24 1885 Ellis tuner #4 Broadwood Best. There are so many on this list I really don't have time to go through and try them all and compare them. That would take forever. In the meantime I have a family to feed.   What I am hoping is that some of the more experienced WT tuners can tell me (and others) what would be good tunings from the list to use, maybe ranking them on a scale from mild to more radical and also tell me what ones would be best to avoid altogether. Or maybe you can steer me to another resource so I can decipher what they are.   I'm also curious as to what the different letter/number combinations mean. The W's perhaps are Well Tempered, the M's maybe meantone?     W01 1700 Early 18th Century W02 1731 Peter Prelleur W03 1746 William Trans'ur W04 1768 Theoretical J.-J. Rousseau W05 1768 Equal Beating J.-J. Rousseau W06 1700 George Frederick Handel W07 1781 Francesco Antonio Vallotti W08 1752 Jean-Le Rond D'Alembert W09 1785 Equal-beating John Preston W10 1785 Theoretical John Preston W11 1799 Vallotti-Young W12 1799 Representative 18th Century W13 1771 Johann Philipp Kimberger W14 1806 Theoretical Charles Stanhope W15 1806 Equal-beating Chas. Stanhope W16 1808 Theoretical Prinz W17 1808 Equal-beating Prinz W18 1832 Jean Jousse W19 1840 Tuner's Guide #1 W20 1840 Tuner's Guide #2 W21 1840 Tuner's Guide #3 W22 1885 Representative Victorian Moon W23 1885 Ellis tuner #2 Broadwood Usual W24 1885 Ellis tuner #4 Broadwood Best R01 1523 Pietro Aaron (1/4 syntonic) R02 1707 Gottfried Keller 1/5 ditonic R04 1749 Robert Smith (50 tones) R05 1770 John Holden 1/5 syntonic 1&2 R06 1809 John Marsh (4/15 syntonic) R07 1808 William Hawkes (1/6 Mercator) R08 1558 Gioseffo Zarlino 2/7 syntonic M09 1600 17th Century M10 1752 Jean-Le Rond D'Alembert M11 1797 1797 1/5 syntonic comma M12 1798 William Hawkes M13 1807 Improved William Hawkes M14 1818 Alexander Metcalf Fisher Q01 1887 Mark Wicks Q02 1811 A. Merrick Q03 1819 Johann C. G. Graupner Q04 1829 Viennese (Hummel) Q05 1832 Jean Jousse Q06 1840 Tuner's Guide (Marsh Plan) Q07 1840 Tuner's Guide (Becket Plan) Q08 1840 Factory Tuners of 1840 Q09 1875 Alexander John Ellis in 1875 Q10 1885 Ellis tuner #5 Broadwood Best Q11 1885 Alexander John Ellis in 1885 Q12 1906 Howard Willet Pyle P01 1373 14th Century P02 1518 Hernricus Grammateus P03 1808 Anton Bemetzrieder P04 1843 Augustus De Morgan P05 1732 Johann George Neidhardt P06 1858 Neidhardy-Marpurg-De Morgan P07 1895 Charles E. Moscow W25 2003 Keller M15 1998 MayHawk   Many thanks,   <div> Dean Dean May             cell 812.239.3359 PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272 Terre Haute IN  47802 </div> <div> <div style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"> <hr align="center" width="100%" size="2"> </div> From: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank"> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [mailto:<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" target="_blank">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Jon Page Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 8:44 AM To: <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank"> pianotech@ptg.org</a> Subject: Who says E.T. is the best way to solve octave divisions?</div> <div>   <blockquote style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt"> Although there is much to be said for playing "period" music on "period" instruments, tuned to "period" temperaments, one can legitimately tune a modern instrument to an early temperament, and recapture much of the composers original intent for his music. </blockquote> <div>  </div> <div> I've been tuning well temperaments for years, using Coleman 11 as a default</div> <div> unless specifically requested. One piano teacher (Julliard grad.) says that she</div> <div> doesn't have to try to inject expression into the music because it was written in.</div> <div>  </div> <div> At a concert yesterday the pianist didn't notice non-ET only that the piano sounded great,</div> <div> plus it had drifted up to 443 from 441 in August (evenly I might add).</div> <div> Regards, Jon Page</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div> -- |  ||  |||  ||  |||  ||  |||  ||  |||  ||  |||  ||  |||  ||  |||          jason's cell 425 830 1561