<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: Steinway action noise</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3199" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Tahoma; } @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US vLink=purple link=blue bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Place a cardboard in the WIPPENS flange? (and go to the Hug)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><U><FONT face=Arial size=2>Motta</FONT></U></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=davidlovepianos@comcast.net href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">David Love</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech List'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 17, 2007 12:55 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Steinway action noise</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Actually as I look at Greg’s picture and the color of the knuckle (very orange)  it may be a Tokiwa.  It’s easy to tell the difference by looking at the drop screw as the Renner has a slotted type screw whereas the Tokiwa has the more traditional flattened nipple type head (however you describe that).   </SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">David Love<BR><A href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</A><BR>www.davidlovepianos.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>John Delacour<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, November 17, 2007 1:21 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Pianotech List</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: Steinway action noise</SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">At 08:19 -0500 16/11/07, Jon Page wrote:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt" cite="" type="cite"> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Looking at my parts, there is a Hamburg flange with the drop screw<BR>about 2 mm proximally located.  In your photo, the red leaching of the<BR>dye into the shank around the bushing says Renner.<BR>My NY S&S shanks have a bushing with a white center not all red.<BR>Some Renner flanges (if I'm not mistaken) have the center about 1 mm</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt" cite="" type="cite"> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">more distal.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Here is a clear picture of the shank and flange currently supplied by Renner for the _New_York_action.  The distance from centre to middle of roller core is advertised as 16.2mm. (Abel does 16mm.).  The standard measurement, and that used for the Hamburg shanks, is 17mm.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><IMG height=230 src="cid:001901c8293a$4233c470$03fea8c0@CASA" width=521></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Compare this with Greg's picture and you will notice not only a difference in the wood used for the core but an apparently quite marked difference in the position of the drop screw even allowing for parallax.  The quality of the buckskin is also different.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><IMG height=257 src="cid:001a01c8293a$423cec30$03fea8c0@CASA" width=454></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">And here is the new Renner shank and flange lined up with the original NY Steinway S part.  There is almost 2mm difference in the disrance from the roller core to the flange profile.  In other words everything is moved inboard nearly 2 mm.  What do do?  The simplest solution is probably to pack the lever rail with card along the top of the screws and pack the near edge of the hammer rail to force the flanges back as far as possible -- note that the profile has a wider central section than the original, so some adjustment is possible without cutting away the far side of the flange.  One way or another it is possible to reduce the error to manageable proportions, and I've seen some pretty extreme fixes of the kind on Steinway's own work.  Nevertheless Renner need to be told that their dimensions are wrong.  And a fat lot of difference that is likely to make!</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><IMG height=255 src="cid:001b01c8293a$423cec30$03fea8c0@CASA" width=339></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">JD</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>