<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><HEAD><TITLE>RE: Heintzman 186 Conservatory Grand Problem</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <STYLE>v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } </STYLE> <STYLE>  </STYLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1555" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US vLink=#800080 link=#0000ff bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>Hi David, </DIV> <DIV>Did the fall board come off at the same time too?</DIV> <DIV>Joe Goss RPT Mother Goose Tools <A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A> <A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com">www.mothergoosetools.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=ilvey@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net">David Ilvedson</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 7:19 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: Heintzman 186 Conservatory Grand Problem</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1>  I ran into this very thing on a 1950's Petrof just last week.  I couldn't pull the action and had visions of lowering the glides and cursing the tech who installed hammers incorrectly bored, when discover if I removed several screws holding the stretcher, out popped the action.   I had not seen that yet... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 <DIV style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 3px solid; PADDING-TOP: 5px"> <HR> Original message From: "Glenn Vallespir" <KEYNOTEPIANO@VERIZON.NET> </KEYNOTEPIANO@VERIZON.NET> To: "Pianotech List" <PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG> </PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG> Received: 11/24/2007 3:43:29 AM Subject: RE: Heintzman 186 Conservatory Grand Problem <DIV class=Section1> Roger,   While not being in front of the piano at this moment, I am confident that the pin block was not the issue. I inserted a sheet of paper between the hammer flange rail and the stretcher board and it did not begin to bind until the screws were touching the stretcher board. This test revealed that the problem was uniform across the hammer rail/ stretch board contact area. When I did try to flex the action I was able to pull it forward a little. When I pushed the action back in back in, screw marks were visible on the stretcher board underside surface. I did try to find screws to tighten. While the screws in the hammer flange rail are not really accessible, almost all of the screws I was able to test in other parts of the action were fairly tight. I have inferred that the flange screws are similarly tight. I’ve seen the tapped down tuning pins before. The tuning pins were visibly at a uniform height and the torque was quite acceptable and reasonable uniform. I don’t think that anyone tapped the pins down.  The stretcher board extends slightly further down than the pin block. When I pull the action it stops abruptly and uniformly parallel to the front of the piano. If the pins were the problem I think my perception would be different.   Jon suggested that the stretcher board might have screws that fasten it and allow it to be removed. Have you seen this to be the case?   Thanks for the suggestions and cautionary words. The more possibilities that I have to look at, the better the possibility that I will find the “giant on/off key” which I had expected to find the first time out.   Regards,   Glenn V.   <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> From: Roger Jolly [mailto:roger.j@sasktel.net] Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 2:56 PM To: Pianotech List Subject: Re: Heintzman 186 Conservatory Grand Problem</DIV>   Hi Glenn,                   A not so uncommon problem with some Heintzman grands, is pin block de lamination.  If some bright spark tried to tap a few a few tuning pins with out supporting the block.  Then Bingo! that will be your problem. Check to see if the strings are very close to the plate, that will give you a good indicator.  About 1/8" would be correct. The tenor section is particularly prone since the pins are so close together.  Closer than most piano's. I have used a small jack and couple of squares of Delignite maple cap material to spread the load on top of the keys. Now easy does it.  Gently jack up a little, then move the jack  a few inches and keep repeating, gently forcing the lamination up, until you get that lamination back up. Warning do not rush, and easy does it, you have to be careful not to damage the keys. Worst case,  I have had to put piano on it's side and start getting the keybed apart.  On Heintzman's  they are both glued and doweled to the rim.  The pin block on this vintage is glued and doweled into the rim and stretcher. Moral of the story,  this can be a major job. Hope this gives you some thing to check Regards Roger. At 10:10 AM 11/23/2007, you wrote: Today I went to a Heintzman 186 Conservatory Grand for the first time. I believe that the serial number, (which was written in invisible ink), is 250807. The customer says that it is 31 years old. It is generally in pretty good condition. I was called in because of a noise in the action. I immediately diagnosed the problem as a loose fastener on the hammer rest rail. I went to pull the action and could not get it out because the hammer flange screws were hitting on the stretcher board. The stretcher board looks perfect and is solid. I loosened the lyre fastening screws, just in case they might have been too long and might be projecting through the key bed. The leg bolts were not protruding and the unicorda was functioning normally. I backed off, (raised), the bedding screws a lot, (Id say at least three turns, but I was not counting). I still could not get the action out. I was able to flex the hammer flange rail and cause the key frame to give some. My assumption is that the glide screws have been over-extended for a long period of time and the key frame has been warped upwards and has taken on a set. I advised the customer to allow the action to rest for a while, and perhaps the key frame will relax. I told her to call me when the notes start double striking.   Did I miss anything? Is there something unusual about a Heintzman which I am not aware of? Do you think my assumption might be correct? If the action does not settle down, can you recommend a good method for getting it out and back in? I cant see reducing the dimension of the stretcher as the correct answer. They had to get it in somehow. Its entirely possible that the action has seen no service in 31 years. Any suggestion is appreciated   Thank you, Glenn V. Key Note Piano Service  </DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>