<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16544" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV dir=ltr align=left>Thanks for comments on my "stumped"- but now that the subject has gone far away into new pin blocks, maybe it would be efficient to change the "subject" line.... </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left>thanks</DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left>les bartlett</DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of John Ross Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 12:10 PM To: Pianotech List Subject: Re: stumped </DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Another question re pins. Why are #2 pins used in a new block?</DIV> <DIV>Wouldn't it make more sense to use #1.</DIV> <DIV>I have always used the #2 in a new pinblock.</DIV> <DIV>I have a mini piano I am putting a block in, and I am using #1 pins. #1 had been used initially.</DIV> <DIV>John M. Ross Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada <A href="mailto:jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca">jrpiano@win.eastlink.ca</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=wimblees@aol.com href="mailto:wimblees@aol.com">Willem Blees</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 1:42 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: Re: stumped</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> -----Original Message----- From: pianolover 88 <<A href="mailto:pianolover88@hotmail.com">pianolover88@hotmail.com</A>> To: Pianotech List <<A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>> Sent: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 7:47 pm Subject: RE: stumped <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_a126d576-1217-47e9-824d-c19a4c4c9ac6> <STYLE>#AOLMsgPart_2_a126d576-1217-47e9-824d-c19a4c4c9ac6 .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } #AOLMsgPart_2_a126d576-1217-47e9-824d-c19a4c4c9ac6 BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } </STYLE> <<Why in the world <PRE>would anyone put 3/0 pins in a new block???>> >From what I gather, the "technician" who did the "rebuild" probably was just too lazy to order smaller pins, or was grossly under-prepared and that's the smallest sozed pins he had at the moment. Or...because there might be less "flagpolling" since Steinway grands don't have tuning pin bushings. </PRE> Terry Peterson He could also have drilled the pins too fast, or with a dull bit. He probably tried 2/0, but found them too loose. Or he just didn't know what he was doing. <DIV style="CLEAR: both">Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician Honolulu, HI Author of The Business of Piano Tuning available from Potter Press www.pianotuning.com</DIV> > Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 23:36:35 -0600 > From: <A href="mailto:rnossaman@cox.net">rnossaman@cox.net</A> > To: <A href="mailto:l-bartlett@sbcglobal.net">l-bartlett@sbcglobal.net</A>; <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> > Subject: Re: stumped > > Leslie Bartlett wrote: > > I tuned (no I really didn't) for "Dennis" today- and old Howard (sn > > 220***- for which I didn't find a reasonable match in Pierce's). The > > retired engineer had married a Russian lady, young enough to be his > > daughter- and nicely I made that mistake. Bass strings were dead, > > multiple bridge cracks, the strings painted gold, several replaced, > > about six pins in the center where a tiny amount of counterclockwise > > pressure sent the string a half or whole tone flat. They also popped > > loudly when they let loose- like Baldwin, only it was virtually no > > useful tension on the pin. There were a couple pins up around note 80 > > which were the same way. Hammer 88 was within 1mm of having the felt > > open up at the bottom of the grooves on the flat-topped hammers. > > Problem was, the man had bought this as a birthday present for this wife > > who is a HIGH level concert player while she was out of the country. > > I was there over four hours, so mad that they guy had gotten screwed (I > > believe the damage was done before prior owner sold it to him- she > > wasn't a player, so bought it mostly as furniture), and that I couldn't > > make a decent tuning. The Russian asked if I had ever tuned a piano > > like this before………………………. I pulled the action and went through > > everything with him, and he seemed more than satisfied that little if > > anything could be done- but the wife- I think she wanted me dead. > > > > When and HOW does one just give up on a POS when nothing works? This > > really bothered me. I've tuned Howards before and hated them, but got > > them tuned. Nothing rendered decently, nothing stayed stable for me. > > I've never had anything quite like this before, and hope I never do again. > > > > They can't afford another piano, though their house was probably valued > > at twice mine, and they had two rather new cars (Honda an Buick) I > > think. I'm coming off a week of three Houston Symphony Tunings, > > another major Hall, two tunings of the most expensive piano in town, and > > directing two performances of the opera Amahl and the Night Visitors. > > I know I was tired……… But I had just done quite ok on a Petrof for one > > of my really persnickety customers, so I haven't completely lost my > > "tuning mind". I'm mad they got screwed, mad she can't play musically > > on this pos, but still feel somehow I should have been able to do > > something to make it work. Sorry to be kind of nuts here, but I'm > > feeling kind of lost. > > > > les bartlett > > > > It doesn't matter what they just did, or someone else just > did, or what anyone's intentions and expectations may be. The > bottom line is the current condition of the piano and what can > be done with it at what price to meet performance > expectations. That's it. It doesn't realistically get any more > complicated than that without your sanction. > > Case in point: Some months ago, I looked at a piano (Steinway > L) that had been "rebuilt", but had a number of insupportable > problems which prompted the call to me to look at it. I find > touch weights in the mid 70s, and one of the more dramatic and > extensive killer octave manifestation I've seen in all the > years I've been in business. The soundboard is, of course, > original and "repaired". > > The plate seems to have been dipped in a glaringly copper > colored goo, which is flaking off in large chunks. The > thinnest loose chunk I found was 0.75mm thick. > > Downbearing was from 1°+ in the tenor, to -2.5° in the high > treble, with negative crown through the top half of the scale. > > The pinblock was new, with new 3/0 pins! Why in the world > would anyone put 3/0 pins in a new block??? > > Bottom line is that the money they spent on the previous > rebuild was not only wasted, but actually did damage. This > instrument is the source of evening therapy for the owner, and > hasn't delivered anything but misery since it was "rebuilt". > To finally get around to where this is going, I could have > done a grand or two worth of regulation and voicing to try and > minimize the wretchedness of this piano, but would have just > further screwed the poor guy in doing so, in my estimation. > Sure, I felt sorry for him, but there wasn't anything real I > could do to help without buying the problem myself. So I did > the hard thing and told and showed him (as I could) in painful > detail what was done, what wasn't done, what should have > minimally been done, and what was possible. He ultimately went > for what was possible, and the piano came in today for a > redesign and remanufacture. After all the misery, and all the > money wasted, I hope and fully expect to supply him with a > happy ending. I intend to give it my best shot. > > So here's the deal. The situation that was set up before you > became involved isn't your fault or problem. It's also not > your problem to come up with a fix that's contrary to reality. > If it takes doing over, that's what it takes. If the customer > won't accept that, they are free to put themselves on the > plate of the next bottom feeder in line. There are plenty to > accommodate. Meanwhile, you maintain supportable standards and > credibility, and minimize losing projects. > > Ain't no free lunch. > > Ron N <HR> Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate. <A href="http://webmail1.webmail.aol.com/33060/aol/en-us/www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline" target=_blank>Join in!</A> = </DIV> <DIV class=AOLPromoFooter> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> More new features than ever. Check out the new <A href="http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003" target=_blank>AOL Mail</A>! </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1169 - Release Date: 12/03/2007 10:56 PM </BODY></HTML>