<html> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)"> <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> I’m not sure why this is such a big deal.  When you close the front part of the lid while the lid is propped, the left hand side of the short lid contacts the rim of the piano preventing it from hyperextending and stressing the hinges.  In addition, the thickness of the lid itself means that the underside of the front and rear part of the lid will be in contact with each other when in the closed position also preventing hyperextension.  If the screws are of reasonable quality and they penetrate to a reasonable depth, there shouldn’t be any problem with this.  Normal expansion and contraction of the wood will likely cause the screws to loosen up and require periodic tightening no matter what.  More often than not, it’s when the periodic tightening is not done and the lid is opened and closed with screws that are no longer solidly bedded that starts the ball to failure rolling.   I don’t see this particular practice of closing the front part of the lid when propped putting any more stress on the hinge than the simple act of opening and closing the lid in the normal manner.   If a problem arises, it would likely have arisen no matter how the lid was opened and closed and is most likely due to inadequate design or maintenance, not the manner in which the lid is placed when propped.       Hanging or pulling on the lid (I assume you were being facetious) will, of course, push the design beyond its limits and is not a fair test.    <div> David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net www.davidlovepianos.com </div> -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of paul bruesch Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 2:22 PM To: Pianotech List Subject: Re: Front lid extended during performance   I wouldn't bother referring them to anyone. Hinges are simply not designed to support a load in that position. Not even piano hinges. If they insist they have to always have it open in that configuration, you or a carpenter should design a proper means of stiffening the joint so as to relieve the stresses from the hinge. If they (the owner(s)) disagree, then challenge them to prop the lid open the way they like it and hang/pull on the closed front. Be sure to be standing a ways back so they don't fall into you when the hinge/screws fail(s). (I'm kidding... don't even suggest that because some people will do it... and then make you fix it... and charge you for the hospital bill.) Think about it. Would you remove the stop from your bathroom door and then move the door beyond its closed position? No. That kind of leverage would rip the screws right out. Ever noticed how a hydraulic storm door closer typically has a safety chain/spring to prevent the door from leveraging its bracket out when you open the door all the way? Paul Bruesch Stillwater, MN <div> On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:05:01, Don <<a href="mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca">pianotuna@accesscomm.ca</a>> wrote: Hi Carmen, I would refer them to the manufacturer of the instrument, or the store they purchased it from, and would suggest that it may overstress the tiny wood screws. If they choose to do it anyway then you can be happy to repair it for them at some future date. At 12:16 PM 1/7/2008 -0800, you wrote: > > My colleagues,              if they ask me whether the front lid IS or  IS >NOT designed to tolerate that configuration?           -piano >manufacturers- or factory reps as to whether the front lid  was -designed- >to be extended when the main  lid is propped up.   Carman Gentile RPT Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T. Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat mailto:<a href="mailto:pianotuna@yahoo.com">pianotuna@yahoo.com</a>      <a href="http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/" target="_blank">http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/</a> 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK, S4S 5G7 306-539-0716 or 1-888-29t-uner </div>   </div> </body> </html>