<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">  <title>RE: Measure friction weight was: Weighting upright keys question</title> <style>  </style>  </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>No, this was a cheap set from an older and larger supply house.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>dp<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>David M. Porritt, RPT<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="dporritt@smu.edu"><span style='color:blue'>dporritt@smu.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Ilvedson<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 18, 2008 10:46 AM<br> <b>To:</b> pianotech@ptg.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> RE: Measure friction weight was: Weighting upright keys question<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598" target="_blank" title="http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598"> </a>Well, hopefully that wasn't pianotek?   It has this hand written weight certification inside...<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><br> David Ilvedson, RPT<br> Pacifica, CA 94044<br> <br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Original message<br> From: "Porritt, David"  <br> To: "Pianotech List"  <br> Received: 2/18/2008 6:12:53 AM<br> Subject: RE: Measure friction weight was: Weighting upright keys question<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Julia:</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Keep in mind that the weights from some suppliers are not accurate.  I bought the little gram weight set from a major supplier and found them all to be heavy (fortunately).  I simply drilled holes in each weight to remove the excess and calibrated each one.  Some of the weights have a lot of holes!  Of course to do this you’ll need a good scale properly calibrated and capable of reading down to at least 0.1 gram.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>dp</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>David M. Porritt, RPT</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><a href="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\DAVIDI~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\Intellect\Mail\Compose\dporritt@smu.edu">dporritt@smu.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> <div> <div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fenton Murray<br> <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:49 PM<br> <b>To:</b> Pianotech List<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Measure friction weight was: Weighting upright keys question<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>Julia,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>To do this work you'll need a set of gram weights. They are for sale at most of the supply houses. With these weights you can place an exact amount on the end of the key, say 50 grams, with the damper pedal depressed (important), see if the key will fall to the point of let off. We are only concerned with the travel of the key from it at rest up position down to the point of let of. The lowest amount that will cause the key to drop (with the damper pedal depressed) is the down weight. Then depress the key to let off and place an amount on the key, the most the key will lift up to it's at rest position is the upwieght, maybe around 25 grams. A little taping on the key bed to get things to move is OK. You need to try some of this before trying to figure it all out. Once you've spent some time with it you'll find it opening doors to a higher level of action work. There is lot's to understand. Read the Stanwood articles in the PTJ, I think they were early '90s. Use the PTJ on CD.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>Fenton<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:KeyKat88@aol.com" title="KeyKat88@aol.com">KeyKat88@aol.com</a> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title="pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 17, 2008 3:22 PM<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b>Subject:</b> Re: Measure friction weight was: Weighting upright keys question<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>Greetings,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>             So how do I start making measurements to see what weight a key(s) neeeds?  How do I measure friction? I am guessing that I should start  by measauring the the foot-lbs (or cm-grams?)  inertia it takes to start the power stroke at the wippen heel/foot. Then I have measured my fricion...right? Then I can do the uw/dw calculations.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>Julia <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>Reading. PA<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>In a message dated 2/16/2008 11:27:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, fmurray@cruzio.com writes:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=MsoNormal>Given a certain friction in the piano we are going to want to set up something like maybe a downweight (dw) of 50 and an upwight (uw) of 25. All numbers in grams. This is assuming a friction of 12.5.<o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> </div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div style='margin-top:7.5pt'> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> </div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:7.5pt'>Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. <a href="http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598" target="_blank" title="http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598">Watch the video on AOL Living.</a> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </body> </html>