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MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New" } DIV.HTMLPreformatted3 { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New" } SPAN.HTMLTypewriter2 { FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New" } SPAN.emailstyle191 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } P.Normal12 { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.Normal12 { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.Normal12 { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } SPAN.Hyperlink16 { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.Hyperlink17 { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.FollowedHyperlink12 { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.FollowedHyperlink13 { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P.NormalWeb5 { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.NormalWeb5 { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.NormalWeb5 { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } P.HTMLPreformatted4 { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New" } LI.HTMLPreformatted4 { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New" } DIV.HTMLPreformatted4 { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New" } SPAN.HTMLTypewriter3 { FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New" } SPAN.emailstyle192 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } SPAN.EmailStyle77 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US vLink=#000000 link=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>That's more than I make working for myself sometimes. Like spending the whole day repairing a planer and running back and forth to the hardware store.</DIV> <DIV>Fenton</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: <A title=davidlovepianos@comcast.net href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">David Love</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech List'</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 4:12 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: RE: A remedy for Verdigris</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=Section1> Nine dollars an hour?  You slave driver.    <DIV> David Love <A href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</A> <A href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com">www.davidlovepianos.com</A> </DIV> -----Original Message----- From: <A href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</A> [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of <A href="mailto:erwinspiano@aol.com">erwinspiano@aol.com</A> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 11:53 AM To: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Subject: Re: A remedy for Verdigris    Yes ...quite true. It would have to be something the client would except liability for. However the repair cost might be quite reasonable if my/your 9 dollar an hour employee spent 4 or 5 hours  pinning on new flanges &  Also taking into account potential savings...ie. cost of traveling new flanges ,going thru the major adjustment of new wippens, setting up new spring tensions & major capstan cranking ...more than just the parts costs are saved.  Or how bout this hypothetical.  I have a  school with a donated older Steinway. The shanks & flanges/hammers get replaced but the frozen wippens are too much money to replace with new parts. An original set is available with new flanges only. No guarantee made. Its' still better than a non functioning Piano.   How many times have we seen this done where the Teflon wippens are retained but new shanks & hammers installed. The function in many of these pianos isn't really all that bad barring extremes in friction or lack friction.  Obviously these are cases where the whole 9 yards is not required.   Just to be clear....which I'm often not....I'm not condoning,dismissing or judging this practice  & I'm also not asking for permission or approval to do this but merely offering food for thought from a different perspective than My usual custom restoration point of view. It was primarily a brainstorming idea.  Like if I could wave my magic wand & have non-vertigrised parts...wouldn't that be cool  Dale   <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_364cf1c6-057a-482b-8fff-ba9f8f2197c7> <DIV> <DIV> You have to be careful here that you�re not creating a potential liability in order to try and save a few dollars.  It might well cost you more in the long run.  </DIV> <DIV>  </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> David Love <A href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</A> <A href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com/" target=_blank>www.davidlovepianos.com</A> </DIV></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> -----Original Message----- From: <A href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</A> [<A href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</A>] On Behalf Of <A href="mailto:erwinspiano@aol.com">erwinspiano@aol.com</A> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:53 AM To: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> Subject: Re: A remedy for Verdigris</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">  </DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">   Well all good points. Yes it's in the wood surrounding the bushing but on extreme cases it seems to have crept into the wood.   Here's the deal I have two sets of 20's wippens that are absolutely free of verdigris. & third that is not. SO if the gunk is in the flange only then new flanges would solve the problem.   Maybe they didn't get the gunk. They are well preserved  & frictions & pinning are excellent.   As you say this would be in rare situations such as an econo job,  not something I would usually subscribe to but I hate wasting what seems like salvageable technology when feasible. Thanks for the feedback      Dale  </DIV> <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_095c1231-af19-4004-80cd-f1f6bd150d5c><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT> </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT> </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>It's a reasonable idea that might make sense in rare situations--though I'm</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>not sure what those would be--, but in general, not worth the effort and too</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>many potential liabilities.  At least that's my view.  If you're not</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>sentimental about original designs, there's certainly no reason to get</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>sentimental about original wippens with verdigris.   </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT> </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>David Love</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT><A href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">davidlovepianos@comcast.net</A></TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT><A href="http://www.davidlovepianos.com/" target=_blank>www.davidlovepianos.com</A> </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT> </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>Original message</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>From: <A href="mailto:erwinspiano@aol.com">erwinspiano@aol.com</A></TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>To: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A></TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>Received: 3/14/2008 7:45:02 PM</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>Subject: A remedy for Verdigris</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT> </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT> </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>Hey all</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT> I know ...I know there is no remedy for verdigris .... except a new parts</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>transplant... but the other day my 83 year old Dad & I were looking a</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>perfectly useable set of vintage Steinway wippens except for the mild case</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>of creeping green crud so, We were lamenting having to toss a beautiful set</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>of original Steinway wippens in the trash. We started brainstorming how we</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>could solve this given the contamination is in the wood.  Now I know many of</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>us have re-pinned & re- bushed ...put on new flanges etc. & in the end all</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>for nothing as it returns, But with a good set of wippens approaching 1000</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>bucks the idea has my attention.</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>  I told my Dad I was thinking about how to cut out the birds eye & then</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>machine a new insert with birds eye & all. My thought was that if the new</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>insert was put in with epoxy that this would act as a verdigris barrier from</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>entering back into the new wood. Then My Pops says "why not just coat the</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>existing birds eye with epoxy & slide a coated pin thru the hole to seal up</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>the exposed inner wood which should prove de a barrier to any further</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>contamination". Then pin on new flanges. I thought the idea had merit.</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>  I mean for a few short hours of pinning & coating an original set of</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>beautifully made & machined  maple wippens could be preserved & re-used at</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>any level of performance required. </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>  How bout some discussion.</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>  Dale</TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT>  </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT> </TT></PRE><PRE style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><TT> </TT></PRE></DIV> <DIV id=u8CA54D43997C9D8-1798-2A13> <DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> Supercharge your AIM. 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