<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: tuning (mute methods and deebees)</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <STYLE></STYLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1555" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Nah, It's the Vergil effect <G></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Joe Goss RPT<BR>Mother Goose Tools<BR><A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><BR><A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com">www.mothergoosetools.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=ilvey@sbcglobal.net href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net">David Ilvedson</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:04 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: tuning (mute methods and deebees)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV align=left>Hey Joe,</DIV> <DIV align=left> </DIV> <DIV align=left>That is the muting method I've just started using.   Today I went back to the Ballet and the pianos were dead solid.   None of the left strings had dropped!   I'm convinced this is worth pursuing.  My theory is tuning tuning the left and right strings don't have any effect on each other and then the center effect is halfed with each string on either side.   I'm sticking to it.  I tuned a upright and it was a little of a hassle cuz the strings are closer together, but still found the unison was coupling better...clearer.   Maybe its the drugs...;-]</DIV> <DIV align=left><BR>David Ilvedson, RPT<BR>Pacifica, CA 94044<BR><BR></DIV> <DIV align=left> <HR> Original message<BR>From: "Joe And Penny Goss" <IMATUNR@SRVINET.COM> </IMATUNR@SRVINET.COM><BR>To: "Pianotech List" <PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG> </PIANOTECH@PTG.ORG><BR>Received: 3/19/2008 7:43:42 PM<BR>Subject: Re: tuning (mute methods and deebees)<BR><BR> <DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Wim,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Years ago Jim C got me on tyo using a split rubber mute. And that was all I used until about two years ago when</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>on Grands I tried using two felt mutes becuase the handle on the split mute was always in the way of the tuning lever.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since I started using the felt wedges my tuning also changed. Now it is tune the left or right string ( it does not seem to matter which one is done first ) and then the center string to the last tuned.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As The tuning reaches the treble notes The first note tuned is set just a tad sharp ( lights just bearly rotating sharp )and the others tuned with the lights dead still. A playing of the unison to show the results. and on I go usually without any change unless there are false beats.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When checking the single strings the first tuned string alone is lights dead still. Don't know why this is my result. Perhaps its the way I wiggle my wand.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I choose to tune this way with the theory of three in mind.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"One string sounding by itself will not sound out of tune without another pitch sourse.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Two strings sounding together are easy to tell if they are not in tune together.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Three strings sounding together will sound as one if they are close to being in tune."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Two instruments or voices in a choir, band or orchestra are hard to tune. The more the merrier<G></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Joe Goss RPT<BR>Mother Goose Tools<BR><A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><BR><A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com/">www.mothergoosetools.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=wimblees@aol.com href="mailto:wimblees@aol.com">Willem Blees</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:37 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: tuning (mute methods and deebees)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><WBR> </WBR> Holly<BR><BR>In regard to the one (or two) mute tuning method. Any time you learn something new, it is going to take some time. The question you have to ask is, is it worth the extra time to learn the new method? Since the general consensus seems to be that the unisons as you go method gives a more stable tuning, I would suggest you take the time. But the customer doesn't have to know you are learning a new method. As long as you're charging the same amount for your tuning, all he/she cares about is the final result, whether it took you an hour or two hours.  So go for it. <BR><BR>How long will it take? That depends on how quickly you learn. It took me about three or four tunings to get the hang of it. But what's interesting, is that now that I'm using this method, it is actually taking me longer to tune a piano than before. Mostly because I am taking longer on the unions, because I'm hearing them much better.<BR><BR> <DIV style="CLEAR: both">Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT<BR>Piano Tuner/Technician<BR>Honolulu, HI<BR>Author of <BR>The Business of Piano Tuning<BR>available from Potter Press<BR>www.pianotuning.com</DIV><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: holly quigley <hollyquigley@gmail.com><BR>To: pianotech@ptg.org<BR>Sent: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:15 am<BR>Subject: tuning (mute methods and deebees)<BR><BR> <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_7137dbd1-e1b2-4dc4-a4ec-49b9b76520a0>(Figured I'd put it under one heading instead of a third post)<BR><BR>Regarding you more experienced tuners and your one-mute method - about how long did it take you to transition from strip muting to unisons-as-you-go? What I mean is, how much time in practice did it take to get your time down and result in a clean enough tuning to do unisons-as-you-go in the field on a paid basis? Does my question make sense? I know in theory, if you're capable of producing a clean and stable tuning using other methods, there shouldn't be much of a transition time, but still. I've fiddled with tuning with one mute (I mean aurally here - I use one mute all the time when tuning with an ETD), and it takes me longer because I'm used to the sound of intervals and octaves in single-string format. I don't get to practice it all the time though, because I gotta work. It's like the fact that I wouldn't go out and start putting Stein-way style tunings on pianos without having practiced and refined the technique on my own. People shouldn't have to pay extra (time or mo! ney) for the technician's learning experience/practice-time.<BR><BR>Also, regarding deebees (the EAR protection thread). Would it make sense to think about it this way: the piano is an instrument designed to be heard clearly and appreciated at a distance. Which means even at "normal" playing levels, it still has to be loud enough to project out to an audience (not bringing in the topic of hall acoustics, etc.). Which means of course there's a lot of volume right at the piano. In a perfect world, even piano players would wear ear protection, just as much as drummers (should) wear ear protection. Not saying those two instruments are of the same hearing damage level, but they can produce damage. I've been able to hear just fine when wearing ear plugs and tuning, so why not take the extra precaution anyway? For me, though, it's just a matter of getting into the habit. This should be a good reason to!<BR><BR>Regarding whether or not a person is striking the notes too hard when tuning, though - I do know that a certain piano manufacturer's head tech has informed tuners time and again that particularly with new grands, it helps when tuning them to strike the notes, HARD, to ensure stability at first. Particularly in the capo bar areas. Which is where the sound gets more painful. This as a response to "the piano is defective because it won't holds its tune" reports. I know everyone tunes differently, and it'd be a shame to turn a thread on the importance of protecting our most important tool into an argument on hard or soft hitters. Sometimes depending on the piano, though, one technique is better than another to use, maybe? <BR><BR>cheers,<BR>Holly Quigley<BR>(just an associate member)<BR><BR></DIV> <DIV class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CA58420B14AE65-10B0-47A1><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Planning your summer road trip? Check out <A title=http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000015 href="http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000015" target=_blank>AOL Travel Guides</A>.</FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>