<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <title>Re: for those on the fence about hearing protection..</title> </head> <body> <div align="left">The question is how hard is a firm blow?   The PTG test has a way for the one administering the test to check stability.  I believe it is the hand dropping from 6 inches or so...gravity...to muscle?   Whatever it is exactly, that is not enough for a stable tuning, imho.   Put smacking it as hard as you can is the other extreme and unnecessary wear and tear on the PIANO and the TUNER.   I am going back to my pianos night after night in concert situations with heavy piano playing...I don't have a stability problem.   But like Superman, I have my kryptonite....Latin pianists.   I would have to pound harder and take more care for someone who's using the piano as a percussion instrument (I know the piano is a percussion instrument)...using the piano as a timbale...and pounding over and over on just a few of the same notes for 15 minutes...I think a montuno?   But, thankfully, I don't have to deal with that too often.   </div> <div align="left">So why don't some of go ahead and come back to me about how Latin Pianists are no problem...;-]<br/><br/>David Ilvedson, RPT<br/>Pacifica, CA 94044<br/><br/></div> <div align="left"> <hr/>Original message<br/>From: erwinspiano@aol.com<br/>To: pianotech@ptg.org<br/>Received: 3/20/2008 1:38:35 PM<br/>Subject: Re: for those on the fence about hearing protection..<br/><br/> <div align="left">IMO Firm blows are a must for stable tunings but more importantly really good hammer technique. Good techique requires fewer firm blows.</div> <div>  Dale Erwin<br/><br/><br/>-----Original Message-----<br/>From: Diane Hofstetter <dianepianotuner@msn.com><br/>To: pianotech@ptg.org<br/>Sent: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:59 am<br/>Subject: for those on the fence about hearing protection..<br/><br/></div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_116e0dbb-9ea4-41e8-b791-3b3658dbedab" style="font-size: 12px; margin: 0px; color: #000; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; background-color: #fff"> <pre style="font-size: 9pt"><tt> It's good this topic has come up. It's one we have collectively been taught and now collectively need to objectively examine. I taught a class in hearing protection and did hearing tests at a piano tuning school last fall. Part of the class included measuring how loud they were tuning. When I asked the instructor to demonstrate tuning blows, he asked "should I do it like I teach them, or like they DO?" I said "both". So he proceeded to tune, using an average blow of 95dB. Then he demonstrated his students' blows. They measured 85dB. Afterwards, when I tested the students' hearing individually, they confessed to me that it hurt their ears to tune as loud as the instructor wanted them to. So I started wondering whether it is actually necessary to use extremely loud test blows, or whether it is PTG folklore? How many of us have actually done objective studies? Now we have ETD's we have the ability to measure our results down to thousandths of a cent. We can go back immediately after a tuning. the next day, the next week, and measure whether it is holding or not. In the 1990's my husband, who had previously been involved in quality control, devised a graph and we started measuring every tuning on the piano before we tuned it. This allowed us to have a picture of the results of our previous tunings. It gave us information on the seasonal tuning changes--helped sell Damppchasers. It helped us selll pitch raises. It gave information on the changes in pitch in the conference center concert instruments so we knew what time to tune to have the piano at pitch. It gave us information on our tuning stability. When I went back to school, more than full time to study hearing, I stopped tuning for a year and a half. One day I opened a little used dresser drawer, and gasped! It was filled with devices I used to use to try to stop the pain in my left fingers, wrist, arm, shoulder.......... The worst part is that those pianos I hurt myself on three years ago are no longer in tune, but I have residual pain. Diane for those on the fence about hearing protection.. Ron Nossaman rnossaman at cox.net < > Sorry I don't use a "trusty etd" I instead use my "trusty god given > ears" and I haven't experienced what you describe. > > Mike I tune aurally, and I sure have, which is why I let up on the pounding. Ron N Diane Hofstetter </tt></pre> </div> <div class="aol_ad_footer" id="u8CA58E17EA54FAB-13A4-4AD"><font style="font: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; color: black"> <hr style="margin-top: 10px"/>Planning your summer road trip? Check out <a title="http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000015" href="http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000015" target="_blank">AOL Travel Guides</a>.</font> </div> </div> </body> </html>