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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Daniel,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I can't help but jump in here. I been there, done
that. I know what it's like to try to put a plan together and then get WAY too
much information on the subject. You mentioned before the piano was rebuilt
20-30 years ago. Did they replace the block or not. If the piano has 4/0 pins,
lots of ways to tell, then they probably restrung a bad block with oversized
pins which is why they are now loose and why repining will do no good. If the
piano has 2/0s maybe they replaced the block and just drilled the pin holes a
little too large. If it's a grand take a look and see if it looks like a
replacement block underneath. Just trying to help you do a little detective work
which is a good way to approach these things. I know there are those who do what
you suggest, I even remember a fairly recent PTJ article on the subject, but no
way would I approach the job as a re-pin. Only 2 ways to go. The no risk, tiny
investment, treat the symptom, not the problem C/A approach. Or rebuild the
piano properly. As far as how to estimate a job like this, if your fairly new to
this work I'd suggest taking your hourly wage and multiplying it by the number
of hours a reputable shop would charge. Maybe 20 for a restring, 10 for a block
plus materials, you get the idea. You'll spend way more time than that, but I
don't think you should charge for those hours. I that old block is splitting and
you drive in big pins, you gonna make things even worse and have a big old mess
on your hands. Ask me how I know. I've seen uprights with the plate out that
looked like they had a perfectly intact block, but that could not provide
sufficient pin torque and needed a new block. There's just know way to really
know. Well, I guess you could start replacing the absolute worst pins first to
see how they do, probably be in the low tenor or bass, just kidding man, don't
do it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Fenton</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=davidlovepianos@comcast.net
href="mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net">David Love</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org
href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">'Pianotech List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 24, 2008 7:46
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: more trouble than it's worth
(was tune, chip with oversized pins?)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Like everyone else
has suggested, doing it the way you plan is a mistake. You don’t know
whether the block might fail altogether, not to mention broken beckets,
strings, etc., etc.. Don’t make the customer’s problem yours. What
kind of piano is it? Either treat the block with CA glue and see how
that goes or redo the thing correctly. Don’t be pressured into taking
shortcuts for the sake of the customer’s previous bad experience and create
one for yourself. We’ve all done it and wished we hadn’t. Here’s
your opportunity to learn from other’s mistakes. I recommend you
take advantage of it. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">David
Love<BR>davidlovepianos@comcast.net<BR>www.davidlovepianos.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>daniel carlton<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, March 24, 2008 11:28
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> pianotech mailing
list<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> more trouble
than it's worth (was tune, chip with oversized pins?)</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">hi guys </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">thanks for the
input.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><EM><I><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't get the
question exactly. Are you replacing tuning pins without
restringing? The whole set?</SPAN></FONT></I></EM></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">yes,
the whole set, without restringing.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><EM><I><FONT face=Arial
color=#330099 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: #330099; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">...damper
adjustments. etc. Speaking of which, you should remove the dampers when
repinning, especially in the bass.</SPAN></FONT></I></EM><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">i
didn't want to get into dampers. i still at the point where i don't like them.
uh but i guess if i'm to do the job i have no choice. at this point, the owner
might as well replace the block. i guess she had it "rebuilt" 20-30 years ago.
she called it rebuilt, but it might have just been a refurbish without a
new block because the pins are so loose. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">these
are the jobs that are frustrating to me, because it's always "well if you're
going to do this, you might as well do that, and if you're going to do that,
then you might as well do this." i think it's the stress of not knowing how
much to estimate.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">anyway...</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">daniel</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>