<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1555" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Strongly agree <G> Always thought of necking as somthing done in the back seat of a car or other quiet spot.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Joe Goss RPT<BR>Mother Goose Tools<BR><A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><BR><A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com">www.mothergoosetools.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=paulrevenkojones@aol.com href="mailto:paulrevenkojones@aol.com">paulrevenkojones@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:42 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: sharp tuning</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Joe:<BR><BR><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Thin spots" are "necking" of the string and lead quickly to breakage since necking happens only when one reaches to or beyond the elastic limit (Young's modulus) of the string. It's why I don't use wire rollers, too! Generally, one has to think in the range of 300 cents overpull to reach breakage (a minor 3rd). In my opinion, there is never any good reason to overpull strings by any more than 20-40 cents; even 100 cents is excessive. <BR><BR>Paul<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Joe And Penny Goss <imatunr@srvinet.com><BR>To: Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org><BR>Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 5:13 pm<BR>Subject: Re: sharp tuning<BR><BR> <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_59174309-4e95-4637-b8e4-d9f1778e7ac4> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hey Paul,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Only credit me with the Elastic line.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Me thinks it should have been stated ALMOST TO as stretched to the point that the wire thins out in spots.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Like in the use of the wire roller. Thin spots on a string will IMHO result in false beats on that wire.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Joe Goss RPT<BR>Mother Goose Tools<BR><A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><BR><A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com" target=_blank>www.mothergoosetools.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> <A title=paulrevenkojones@aol.com href="mailto:paulrevenkojones@aol.com">paulrevenkojones@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:36 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> Re: sharp tuning</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Joe (and Wim):<BR><BR><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">BZZZZT!. "Beyond it's elasticity" means that the string will now break. Overpitching a string will not cause false (real) beats in and of itself unless there is some bridge involvement. And chipping a piano even a half-step high seems to be way more than necessary. I have typically chipped the piano about 25 cents sharp, watched it fall, then chipped it again 10 cents sharp before actually tuning it, with very stable results. <BR><BR>Paul<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Joe And Penny Goss <<A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A>><BR>To: Pianotech List <<A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>><BR>Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:46 pm<BR>Subject: Re: sharp tuning<BR><BR> <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_10bdabfd-68d5-45ad-9ad7-f302ea97f5b1> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Wim,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I suspect there will be a slurry of false beating sounds in the upper range of this instrument, caused by over stretching of the wire beyond it's elasticity.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Joe Goss RPT<BR>Mother Goose Tools<BR><A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><BR><A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com" target=_blank>www.mothergoosetools.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> <A title=wimblees@aol.com href="mailto:wimblees@aol.com">Willem Blees</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:03 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> Re: sharp tuning</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><WBR>Noah<BR><BR>Who ever restrung this piano really took a chance tuning the piano a whole step sharp. I chip a piano a half a step high, but even my first tuning is only 25 cents high. I don't think this dealer understands what is happening to this piano. Is he telling you to keep it a whole step high because he doesn't want to pay you to do more than just a tuning, or does he think customers won't notice. In my opinion, he is not being honest with him self, much less his customers. <BR><BR> <DIV style="CLEAR: both">Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT<BR>Piano Tuner/Technician<BR>Honolulu, HI<BR>Author of <BR>The Business of Piano Tuning<BR>available from Potter Press<BR><A href="http://www.pianotuning.com" target=_blank>www.pianotuning.com</A></DIV><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Noah Haverkamp <<A href="mailto:noahhaverkamp@yahoo.com">noahhaverkamp@yahoo.com</A>><BR>To: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><BR>Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 2:01 am<BR>Subject: sharp tuning<BR><BR> <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_5d28bc90-d1bb-4288-bc02-5089c763eac4>i began to do a floor tuning at a warehouse last week and A4 was tuned as B4. i tuned it to A440. A3 was B3, so i tuned it to A220. about 3 notes later i felt really weird, so i informed the boss what was going on and was told to tune it where it was at. it had just received new strings. <BR><BR>well that made it easier to tune, but i mean, ive never heard of tuning a piano a whole tone sharp. <BR><BR><BR>Noah Haverkamp <BR><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,127,64)">Know-a Piano </SPAN><BR><A href="http://www.knowapiano.com/" target=_blank>http://www.knowapiano.com</A> <BR>347-308-0094 <BR>Fax: 718-701-2071 </DIV> <DIV class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CA67B1A2F220D2-134C-1408><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL,SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get the <A title=http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003 href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target=_blank>MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CA67BEA3D5C7B1-798-AC5><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL,SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get the <A title=http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003 href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target=_blank>MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CA67E0E9A1D59D-798-1A6D><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get the <A title=http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003 href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target=_blank>MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>