Just a non-scientific inquiry here, but if the wire stretches any perceptible amount, wouldn't the diameter decrease?  Even wires adjacent to broken, 100-yr-old strings generally mic right on. Presumably, again using unscientific notation, that is a specification for piano wire steel... that is, to be able to resist stretching and the resulting diameter decrease. Paul Bruesch Stillwater, MN <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Ron Nossaman <<a href="mailto:rnossaman@cox.net">rnossaman@cox.net</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"> The fact is you simply can't bear to have facts demonstrated to you that aren't written ad nauseam in the Gospel according Ron Nossaman and that any serious scientific data is beyond your powers of understanding. </blockquote> Sorry John. This isn't some wild hair notion I cooked up on my own. It's the best evidence I could find out there among real engineering sources. This doesn't have my ego wrapped up in it anywhere. As I have said repeatedly, if you have an authoritative source that says modern music wire stretches in the long term under the conditions found in real pianos, I'd love to see it. It would make life so much easier to be able to blame the wire for everything. But then I'd be at a loss as to why low panel compression rib supported soundboards with laminated bridge caps stay in tune so much better than traditionally built panel supported boards with solid caps, using the same ever stretching wire. And no, that's not my wild hair notion either, but is reported by techs I've done belly work for.  > In the patent I suggested you look at, published in 1985, what sort of wire do you think they were dealing with, for heavens' sake?!  Of course you did not read it. Apparently not, but then patents have been issued for perpetual motion machines, which might cast some doubt as to it's being a credible information source. I'll wait for the diversionary chaff to clear and see if a real echo appears on the screen. Ron N </blockquote></div>