<WBR>I go to an in tune piano and play the first note of the tenor section of the piano that was just restrung, only a half step higher. (If the first note is a F, I play F#). I hum that note, and then go to the piano that I'm working on and chip the first string in the tenor match it to whatever I'm singing. As I said, that is what the first note is. I chip a major scale, but by the time I'm about half way through the chipping process, with all the tension that is put on the board, I'm sure that first note has already dropped to pitch. I don't know, since I've never checked it.  <br> <br> <div style="CLEAR: both">Wim</div> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: paulrevenkojones@aol.com<br> To: pianotech@ptg.org<br> Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:31 pm<br> Subject: Re: sharp tuning<br> <br> <div id=AOLMsgPart_2_3fe385d9-5df8-4e4d-9a55-ce0ae3b9464c> <div>"It starts out that way"? You mean that when you're stringing you pull the tension to a half-step over pitch? <FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please clarify.</FONT><br> <br> <FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">P</FONT><br> </div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Willem Blees <<A href="mailto:wimblees@aol.com">wimblees@aol.com</A>><br> To: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><br> Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 5:10 pm<br> Subject: Re: sharp tuning<br> <br> <div id=AOLMsgPart_2_bfb88719-a63e-4b81-856f-1099046eae3d><WBR>Paul<br> <br> Actually, the piano is not really chipped a half step high. It starts out that way, but by the time I'm done chipping, it's down significantly. I start my chipping with the first note in the tenor. I chip one string of that note a half step high. I then chip a major scale, one string only, all the way up. I then chip the second note in the tenor a half step higher than the first note, and again doing one string for each note, chip a major scale. (of course the 3rd and 7th note of that scale are already "tuned". I then chip one more string on each note, and finish chipping the third string. I then chip the bass strings. I've never actually measured the first string in the tenor, but after I install the dampers and push in the action, I usually wind up doing about a 50% - 60% pitch raise, with the SAT set 25 cents high. I wind up with good, stable tunings. <br> <br> As far as what Noah found, whoever restrung that piano either didn't know what he was doing, or misunderstood the difference between a half step and and a whole step. I've run across Asian pianos that were 25 cents high right out of the box. They must have started higher than that when they left the factory, but I'm sure it wasn't a whole step higher. <br> <br> <div style="CLEAR: both">Wim<br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: <A href="mailto:paulrevenkojones@aol.com">paulrevenkojones@aol.com</A><br> To: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><br> Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 8:36 am<br> Subject: Re: sharp tuning<br> <br> </div> <div id=AOLMsgPart_2_71b99a5c-4e86-4eb4-ae67-45f113e95900> <div>Joe (and Wim):<br> <br> <FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">BZZZZT!. "Beyond it's elasticity" means that the string will now break. Overpitching a string will not cause false (real) beats in and of itself unless there is some bridge involvement. And chipping a piano even a half-step high seems to be way more than necessary. I have typically chipped the piano about 25 cents sharp, watched it fall, then chipped it again 10 cents sharp before actually tuning it, with very stable results. <br> <br> Paul<br> </FONT></div> <div><br> </div> <div><br> </div> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Joe And Penny Goss <<A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A>><br> To: Pianotech List <<A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>><br> Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:46 pm<br> Subject: Re: sharp tuning<br> <br> <div id=AOLMsgPart_2_10bdabfd-68d5-45ad-9ad7-f302ea97f5b1> <div><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Wim,</FONT></div> <div><FONT face=Arial size=2>I suspect there will be a slurry of false beating sounds in the upper range of this instrument, caused by over stretching of the wire beyond it's elasticity.</FONT></div> <div>Joe Goss RPT<br> Mother Goose Tools<br> <A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><br> <A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com/" target=_blank>www.mothergoosetools.com</A></div> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> <A title=wimblees@aol.com href="mailto:wimblees@aol.com">Willem Blees</A> </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:03 AM</div> <div style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> Re: sharp tuning</div> <div><br> </div> <WBR>Noah<br> <br> Who ever restrung this piano really took a chance tuning the piano a whole step sharp. I chip a piano a half a step high, but even my first tuning is only 25 cents high. I don't think this dealer understands what is happening to this piano. Is he telling you to keep it a whole step high because he doesn't want to pay you to do more than just a tuning, or does he think customers won't notice. In my opinion, he is not being honest with him self, much less his customers. <br> <br> <div style="CLEAR: both">Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT<br> Piano Tuner/Technician<br> Honolulu, HI<br> Author of <br> The Business of Piano Tuning<br> available from Potter Press<br> <A href="http://www.pianotuning.com/" target=_blank>www.pianotuning.com</A></div> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Noah Haverkamp <<A href="mailto:noahhaverkamp@yahoo.com">noahhaverkamp@yahoo.com</A>><br> To: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><br> Sent: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 2:01 am<br> Subject: sharp tuning<br> <br> <div id=AOLMsgPart_2_5d28bc90-d1bb-4288-bc02-5089c763eac4>i began to do a floor tuning at a warehouse last week and A4 was tuned as B4. i tuned it to A440. A3 was B3, so i tuned it to A220. about 3 notes later i felt really weird, so i informed the boss what was going on and was told to tune it where it was at. it had just received new strings. <br> <br> well that made it easier to tune, but i mean, ive never heard of tuning a piano a whole tone sharp. <br> <br> <br> Noah Haverkamp <br> <SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(0,127,64)">Know-a Piano </SPAN><br> <A href="http://www.knowapiano.com/" target=_blank>http://www.knowapiano.com</A> <br> 347-308-0094 <br> Fax: 718-701-2071 </div> <div class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CA67B1A2F220D2-134C-1408><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL,SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get the <A title=http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003 href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target=_blank>MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </div> </BLOCKQUOTE></div> <div class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CA67BEA3D5C7B1-798-AC5><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL,SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get the <A title=http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003 href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target=_blank>MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </div> </div> <div class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CA67DC6DE57B68-11D8-BB8><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL,SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get the <A title=http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003 href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target=_blank>MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </div> </div> <div class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CA67DF75BF127D-798-19E1><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Get the <A title=http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003 href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target=_blank>MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </div> </div> <div id='u8CA683A04856AE7-21C-23' class='aol_ad_footer'><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Get the <A title="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003" target="_blank">MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!</FONT> </div>