<html> <body> Well Al, Maybe we mean different things when we say "clunker".  The case I was called on involved a "family-heirloom" that spent 20 some odd years out in the barn.  It had been infested with some kind of wood eating bug as a bunch of the keys had flopped over and the key pins had nothing to bed in.  A lot of the action was flopping too, wood (missing) and glue joint issues.  More then half the strings where broken, I tried lowering one out of curiosity and it broke too.  South Texas weather is brutal to glue joints and everything glued (case, hammer-felt, etc.) was coming apart.  You could push a pencil through the cracks in the soundboard. I suggested that I knew of other used instruments that where for-sale at a reasonable price.  They weren't interested.  I gently pointed out that there was no foundation on which to make this an instrument and they still insisted.  I quoted them $8000 to make it an instrument again and they were offended.  'Nuff said.  (Don't ask for that quote again because I don't think it is enough anymore.) On the other hand I was called out to give a bid to restore a piano for local businessman's daughter who decided she wanted to learn piano.  I looked at what apparently was an old English cottage industry piano.  It had an open pinblock with large cracks running from pin to pin, some more than half the length of the piano.  The strings were very rusty.  Felt glue joints were coming apart.  The action was mounted by a wood toggle to the case on each end and swayed in the middle.  About two thirds of the action actually would activate with the keys.  I asked him how much it cost him, $500.  Ouch!  I asked him what his budget was.  $600.  I discussed the quality range this piano was in brand new and what condition it was in now.  I pointed out to him that it simply wasn't tunable and then pointed to the failing glue joints and he said, "Yeah, they said it was on their open back porch for only a short time." I told him that even if I could get everything to kind-of function that this piano would be a barrier to the learning progress not a vehicle of learning.  I suggested his remaining budget was much better spend on one of the digital pianos that was for sale at a local store and that this digital piano would get his daughter half-way through elementary piano but that in three to four years she would need a real piano and he would need to save up to purchase something in the three to four thousand dollar range.  I suggested that if he was interested in another used piano to give me a call first.  He thanked me for my candor.  He said that he appreciated that I didn't just take his money like another technician offered to do and "produce something that would be miserable to play."  (Never mind not tunable.)  He paid me more than I asked for driving all the way out there to look at it and four free flat-tire repair coupons. Someone is bringing dead pianos down here to Laredo and fast talking people into buying fixer-uppers.  They are invariably dead wrecks.  There word is getting out by word of mouth not to buy from him but I still get called out to look at them occasionally.  I still cringe at the high prices he is getting for them. I service plenty of older pianos that need a little voicing, reg. key leveling etc. that I get to work on little by little at each appointment. I have a businessman friend who decided to get into the used piano business on the side and I send customers to him because I've seen the pianos and they are serviceable. YMMV, Andrew Anderson At 06:35 AM 4/11/2008, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Andrew Anderson wrote: "Not a customer I wanted to have"   Not a technician I would want!   Al Guecia   <dl> <dd>----- Original Message ----- <dd>From: <a href="mailto:anrebe@sbcglobal.net">Andrew and Rebeca Anderson</a> <dd>To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</a> <dd>Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:24 PM <dd>Subject: Re: Clunker pianos - what do you do? <dd>Most of the time I get called to rescue a clunker because it was bought with the intention of inflicting it on a budding piano student.  That is something I don't choose to be a part of.  They thought they could get a piano on the cheap and I show them that they wasted their money and suggest that they stop the hemorrhaging before it gets any worse.  <dd>Occasionally I do get the "but we want it anyway" spiel and then I do quote what it would take to do it right, eight to ten Gs and they usually get angry.  Not a customer I wanted to have. <dd>Andrew Anderson <dd>At 03:51 PM 4/10/2008, you wrote: <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""> <dd>Hi Andrew <dd>  I also give this advice.... <dd> However, your definition of value may be different than the clients.  We ascribe values in many ways other than money..Know what I mean? <dd>ie.  It's Grandmas piano...It has potential. It'll sound better than the new bright shinies out there & yes it needs 10 K of work...Is it worth it on the open market when done.  Probably not...Do they care....Probably not.  Advise them & then let them make their own choices. There grown ups after all. <dd>  Dale <dd>Michelle, <dd>I have a simple rule-of-thumb. If the cost of my work far exceeds the potential value of the piano I refuse to take the job. <dd>  <dd>Andrew Anderson <dd>  <hr> <dd>Get the <a href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003"> MapQuest Toolbar</a>, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! </blockquote> </dl></blockquote></body> </html>