<html> <head> <style> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } </style> </head> <body class='hmmessage'> hmm, good question. I can´t explain that. I am even not shure if needling from the side is better or not, I never tried. I think I should search the archives for that topic to see what was discussed yet. But one is shure: it´s not new and even that plier is not new. The mentioned collegue does not aim to be the inventor me thinks. BTW: I just looked up the price for that pliers: 248 Euro which are 394 US-Dollar. Wow! I think I won´t order :-) Gregor > From: ilvey@sbcglobal.net > To: pianotech@ptg.org > Subject: RE: Hard Hammers > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:20:21 -0700 > > First of all, I hope we are not talking about Glover's needles. Now why would hammer fibers be less disturbed from the side? If fibers are a sort of a tube shape, what difference does it make if you stick a needle in from one side or the other? Also from the side has more chance of center damage... > > David Ilvedson, RPT > Pacifica, CA 94044 > > ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- > From: "Gregor _" <karlkaputt@hotmail.com> > To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech@ptg.org> > Received: 4/24/2008 12:07:02 AM > Subject: RE: Hard Hammers > > > > >On the Music Fair Frankfurt I met a collegue who says that the traditional method of > >needeling which is tought at the German pianotech school in Ludwigsburg is not the > >best way for voicing. He claims that hammers should not be needled on the > >shoulder, better is from the side. I can´t explain that very well in English, but > >imagine the hammer looking from above. Usualy we needle from above and from the > >under side. He says it´s better from the left and right side for the beginning. Only > >the final fine work should be done in the traditional way. He argues that the fibres > >are destroyed by the traditional way. By needeling from the side the fibre > >interconnection is loosened instead of destroying single fibres. He is writing a book > >about that and I saw some excerpts in form of some powerpoint presentations > >where he placed some microscope pictures of fibres and fibre interconnections. > >Looked and sounded convincing. He constructed a tool for voicing, a special gripper. > >That is sold by Jahn. On the Jahn homepage you can see a picture: > > >http://www.pianoteile.com/ > > >Look for *Intonierzange E&B Olbrich* at the top on the right side. Jahn writes about > >THE REVOLUTION in voicing. As far I understood, in the future there will be a new > >version available which works from 2 sides, i.e. the needles will come from both > >sides. > > >I don´t know if this is really a revolution, but it´s lesser work with that gripper. I > >think I will order one and try it. > > >Gregor > > >From: deanmay@pianorebuilders.com > >To: pianotech@ptg.org > >Subject: RE: Hard Hammers > >Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:39:28 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Here is an idea for a needling tool. > >Someone who has too much time on their hands and likes to modify tools could > >build one for the rest of us. > > > > > >What if you took a small air nailer, say > >for brad nails, and modified the end of the piston that pushes the nail head so > >that it would accept and capture a single needle? With a single pull of the > >trigger it should easily fire the needle as deep as you want it to go and the > >spring loaded piston would pull it right back out. The business end of the > >nailer could be set up with an adjustable foot that could control the depth of > >penetration. > > > > > >The advantages would be the ability to get > >lots of deep needle penetration on hard hammers without wearing yourself out. > >It would also probably incur minimal stress on the hammer molding and glue > >joint compared to traditional needling. > > > > > >A hand operated staple gun might also work > >which would give more portability. > > > > > > > >Dean > > >Dean May > >cell 812.239.3359 > > >PianoRebuilders.com > >812.235.5272 > > >Terre > > Haute > > IN > > 47802 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org > >[mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf > >Of erwinspiano@aol.com > > >Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 > >11:03 AM > > >To: pianotech@ptg.org > > >Subject: Re: Hard Hammers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John > > > Petrified felt, yes indeed a, Paul Bailey coined phrase. > > > I've tried the Dremel many times & find it rather > >useless, but hey they can't be worse. I simply marvel at the lack of interest > >many piano makers have in tone as is evidenced by what they call piano hammers. > >Those who purchased the inexpensive pso simply need the paradigm shift that > >they got a bargain that they now need to invest in to make it a legitimate > >instrument. Like getting a great car cheap that needs a tune up & further > >performance enhancement. Ok....adequate car > > > All our heroic voicing efforts in these cases as I see it.... are not > >our problem. > > > I of course, suggest a hammer transplant as usual. > > > A for effort John > > > Dale > > > > > > >>...then perhaps its your general needling approach that > >needs adjusting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sometimes needles won't work at > >all. Last week I was servicing a Wurlitzer > > > > > > >grand with petrified hammers. A needle > >would not penetrate and squeezing > > > > > > >with parallel pliers felt more like a > >piece of wood than felt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I used a damp cloth and an iron on the > >shoulders and a little on the crown. > > > > > > >This relaxed the hammer enough to be able > >to squeeze the shoulders with > > > > > > >parallel pliers. It was still > >plenty loud but the piercing edge was now gone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I'm considering voicing with a fine drill > >bit and a Dremel tool on slow speed > > > > > > >so as not to scorch the fibers. Maybe > >this will create small gaps for the fibers > > > > > > >to expand into and ease the density. > >It certainly couldn't hurt these HSO's. > > > > >-- > > > > > > >Regards, > > > > >Jon Page > > > > > > > > > > > > > >HSO: Hammer Shaped Object > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Get the > >MapQuest > >Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! > > > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger  > >http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wl > >mailtagline <hr />Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger <a href='http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline' target='_new'>Get it now! </a></body> </html>