<div>Willem,</div> <div> </div> <div>Here is where the wicket gets sticky.  The owner asked what I thought the piano was worth before the fire, but the insurance adjuster did not. The adjuster did ask the owner, though I don't what he answered.  They did have a replacement policy, though I think the insurance company is just going to make an offer to the owner for the piano, and the owner has already told me that he won't restore the piano.  My client is whoever's name is on the check and that is the person to whom I owe full disclosure.  If the insurance company isn't paying me I certainly don't need to volunteer any information to them do I?  If they ask I would answer truthfully, yet... whose interest do I represent? I can't help the client perpetrate a fraud, but should I see to it that the insurer pays as little as possible or the owner collect the maximum ethical amount? Subtle differences which can amount to hundreds if not thousands of dollars.</div> <div> </div> <div>Andrew<br><br></div> <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:50 PM, Willem Blees <<a href="mailto:wimblees@aol.com">wimblees@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">When I've dealt with insurance companies, they've ask me what the value of the instrument was before the damage. Sometimes that's hard to figure, but in most cases, you should be able to get an idea. If the cost of the repairs are more than the value of the instrument before the damage, the insurance company will give the customer cash for the "before damage" value. The exception is when a customer has a "new for old" rider on the policy. That basically states the insurance company will buy a new instrument of equal quality if the old instrument is damage beyond repair, or if the cost of the the repairs are more than a new instrument. <br> <br> <div style="CLEAR: both">Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT<br>Piano Tuner/Technician<br>Honolulu, HI<br>Author of <br>The Business of Piano Tuning<br>available from Potter Press<br><a href="http://www.pianotuning.com/" target="_blank">www.pianotuning.com</a></div> <div class="Ih2E3d"><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Andrew Remillard <<a href="mailto:anrpiano@gmail.com" target="_blank">anrpiano@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Pianotech List <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br> </div> <div> <div></div> <div class="Wj3C7c">Sent: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 7:12 am<br>Subject: Re: Water Damage><br><br> <div> <div>Paul,</div> <div> </div> <div>I faced the following circumstance recently and had similar struggles.  The piano was a late 19th century Bauer upright. Everything was original.  The piano had been in a home which had experienced a significant fire within 15 feet of the piano. There was water damage (though less than I had expected), smoke, etc. The firemen had covered the instrument in tarp as they were extinguishing the fire so it did escape a lot of damage it could have experienced. But.. obviously this piano had little to no value before the fire, yet, if the question was what would it cost to "return the piano to pre-fire condition" how do you answer this? Obviously we can't really return it to "pre-fire condition" without rebuilding and refinishing it, but then we have something worth much more than before the fire. If the difference between pre-fire and post restoration was within say 20% of the cost I wouldn't have worried about it, but this is a different animal.  I would ! welcome any ideas on how to handle this type of situation.<br> </div> <div>Andrew Remillard<br></div> <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:43 AM, <<a href="mailto:paulrevenkojones@aol.com" target="_blank">paulrevenkojones@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div>This is a tricky ethical dilemma for a technician. <br><br><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Several years ago we were called to assess fire and smoke damage to a Steinway D in a concert venue in our area. We had a year and a half earlier presented the organization with an estimate of costs for rebuilding the piano. First we had to quite diplomatically let the folks know that we had a possible conflict of interest in the matter in that we would certainly like to have gotten the restoration work. We said that we would assess damage but undertake none of the repair to avoid that conflict. <br> <br>The piano was not badly damaged at all, except for some lingering smoky soot, and the real damage was historical, the condition of the piano as we had seen it before. We presented our assessment and the possible costs of cleaning up the piano and were rebuffed since we did not present it in the context of fully restoring the instrument. The organization was eager to use this reason for finding the insurance company to pay the bill for restoration. <br> <br>What we would have found ourselves involved in, had we agreed to present costs for restoration which would have been paid for by insurance, is simple fraud, or abetting fraud. <br><br>I would only suggest that when confronted by such situations that we ask all of the hard ethical questions even if the answers are not to our benefit in the short term. The benefits in the long term are much greater. <br> <br>Paul<br></font></div> <div> <blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 3px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid">Except now he can hopefully get the insurance company to foot part of the bill for the rebuild.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div><br></div> <div><br></div></div> <div> <div></div> <div>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Michael Magness <<a href="mailto:IFixPianos@yahoo.com" target="_blank">IFixPianos@yahoo.com</a>><br>To: Pianotech List <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target="_blank">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br> Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:47 pm<br>Subject: Re: Water Damage><br><br> <div><br><br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 6:59 PM, Matthew Todd <<a href="mailto:toddpianoworks@yahoo.com" target="_blank">toddpianoworks@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> <div>I will be looking at a grand piano next week located in a school auditorium.  Someone poured a bucket of water inside.</div> <div><br>Can someone give me an idea of what to expect???</div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks, and I appreciate it!</div> <div>Matthew</div> <div><font color="#888888"></font></div> <hr size="1"> <div>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ" target="_blank">Try it now.</a></div> <div></div> <div></div></blockquote></div> <div><br>Hi Mathew,</div> <div> </div> <div>You might just be surprised, I know I was when I was called to look at a grand that suffered a roof leak directly onto/into it in a home recently. The customer had an ice dam on his roof cause a roof leak directly into his Ivers & Pond grand. Since it was past needing a rebuild at the time and only being nursed along until he could be convinced it was no longer viable as it was and HAD to be rebuilt, the leak served to hasten him along. Other than some water stains on the sound board and causing the genuine alligator outer finish to "crackle off" and the hammers in the treble to "blossom" open, it was no worse off than before. Except now he can hopefully get the insurance company to foot part of the bill for the rebuild.</div> <div> </div> <div>Mike<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution.<br>- Bertrand Russell<br><br>Michael Magness<br>Magness Piano Service<br>608-786-4404<br> <a href="http://www.ifixpianos.com/" target="_blank">www.IFixPianos.com</a><br>email <a href="mailto:mike@ifixpianos.com" target="_blank">mike@ifixpianos.com</a> </div></div></div></div> <div><font style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <hr style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Plan your next roadtrip with <a title="http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004" href="http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004" target="_blank">MapQuest.com</a>: America's #1 Mapping Site.</font> </div> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Andrew Remillard<br>ANRPiano.com<br>2211 Curtiss St.<br>Downers Grove, IL 60515<br>630-852-5058 </div> <div><font style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black"> <hr style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> Plan your next roadtrip with <a title="http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004" href="http://www.mapquest.com/?ncid=mpqmap00030000000004" target="_blank">MapQuest.com</a>: America's #1 Mapping Site.</font> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Andrew Remillard<br>ANRPiano.com<br>2211 Curtiss St.<br>Downers Grove, IL 60515<br>630-852-5058