<div class="gmail_quote"> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote"> It was the tech man at Baldwin who me told that. (I can't remember his name, but was a very popular instructor at seminars and conventions) </blockquote></blockquote></div> Cliff Geers ?  Willard Sims ?