<div>Hi Greg,</div> <div> </div> <div>I did level the strings in the high treble  (yes, they definitely can be out of level) very carefully as I usually do in piano prep. The tonal problems that occur with unlevel strings seem to be more in the nature of lack of clarity or power rather than an audible beat rate, at least to my ear.</div> <div> </div> <div>I think I will experiment more with Ron's advice as regards the screwdriver test and mass loading on the next one I run across.</div> <div> </div> <div>Thanks for the suggestion, though.</div> <div> </div> <div>Scott Nelson<BR><BR><B><I>Greg Newell <gnewell@ameritech.net></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <META content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)" name=Generator> <STYLE>  </STYLE> <DIV class=Section1> <div class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Scott, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></div> <div class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">                Is it possible that these strings could be slightly out of phase with each other. Can strings be that much out of level in the high treble?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></div> <div class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></div> <div class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Greg Newell<o:p></o:p></SPAN></div> <div class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Greg's Piano Forté<o:p></o:p></SPAN></div> <div class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">www.gregspianoforte.com<o:p></o:p></SPAN></div> <div class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">216-226-3791 (office)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></div> <div class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">216-470-8634 (mobile)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></div> <div class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></div> <DIV style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Scott Nelson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 12, 2008 10:51 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Pianotech List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Estonia 6'3" Grand<o:p></o:p></SPAN></div></DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><o:p> </o:p></div> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Hi Don,<o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">I have had the same issues on a number of Estonias recently-  On one, I actually removed the strings in the top section, pulled the bridge pins, renotched the bridge, inserted new pins (with epoxy) and restrung the section. It was a bear notching with the plate in the piano, but it can be done. <o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Unfortunately there was not a great deal of improvement-still very false. I did not think to mass load the bridge to lower the driven resonant frequency. Perhaps that would have made a difference. The original pins coming out of the bridge were very tight. The beating was at times very fast, especially up near D7 and higher. <o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">The front duplex is movable on the more recent ones but if you shorten them it tends to reduce the angle from the capo to the aliquot (because that part of the plate angles downward). Nevertheless, de-tuning them does take a lot of noise out of that area. I have had one customer that pointed out an "unfocussed" sound on every note where the front duplex was longest.<o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> Any ideas on what else can be done for the false beating? <o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"> <o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Scott Nelson, RPT<BR><BR><B><I>Don <pianotuna@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in">Hi all,<BR><BR>Back from my trip into the wilds of Saskatchewan to tune an Estonia 6'3"<BR>grand. Nice piano but the top register after the treble break had lots of<BR>"false beats". Turns out it was the front scaling tuning that was close<BR>enough to cause the warbles. I muted it while I tuned and then unmuted it<BR>"for the richness of the sound".<BR><BR>Is the front duplex tuneable on these? Or only the rear one?<BR><BR>Temporary muting of the duplex made tuning a pleasure. I hope this tip<BR>helps someone else out sometime.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.P.T.<BR>Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat<BR><BR>mailto:pianotuna@yahoo.com http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/<BR><BR>3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK, S4S 5G7<BR>306-539-0716 or 1-888-29t-uner<o:p></o:p></div></BLOCKQUOTE> <div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><o:p> </o:p></div></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>