<div>In one of your previous e-mails Alicia, you mentioned that you seem to feel that most people never use the una corda pedal.  Now you are saying that IF someone uses the pedal as much as you do, the cards will eventually slip out, and that you've been there done that.  Please enlighten my confusion here.  I am sure it's just me, lol.</div> <div> </div> <div>BTW, it wouldn't hurt anything to use a few drops of glue (CA?) on the card before shimming.</div> <div> </div> <div>Matthew</div> <div> </div> <div> A E <eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <STYLE> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } </STYLE> well if someone uses the una corda as much as i do the cards will eventually slip out.... same with felt punchings... constant movement of keyframe and out they go..... been there tried it didnt work too well... i dont charge anything for the screw and felt thing as it takes just a few mins to do, a lil screw and some felt glued to the slip... im just saying from MY experience it wound up to be most effective... and no one has complained...   Alicia <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:10:13 -0700 From: tvaktvak@sbcglobal.net Subject: RE: Keyslips making keys stick To: pianotech@ptg.org Not as effective...hmmm....  In what way is a screw and leather MORE effective? The keyslip needs to be kept away from the keys.  Something needs to be put in between the front of the key frame and the keyslip.  Something that will keep the keyslip from bending inward.   I've seen paper punchings glued to the keyframe that do the job.  I've seen felt punchings there.  I've seen business cards glued or simply put in place between the keyslip and keyframe that do the job. They all do the job.  They are equally effective.  Are they not?  And from the customer's point of view, what is the cost of these various systems?  I do not charge anything to fold my business card twice and drop it in place because it takes me about two minutes.   My customers are perfectly happy with solution, since their keys no longer get stuck on the keyslip.  How much does your customer pay for your screw and felt/leather? Tom Sivak Chicago A E <eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=EC_replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"> <STYLE> .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} </STYLE> been there tried it ... not as effective as screw and felt/leather... <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:06:22 -0700 From: toddpianoworks@att.net Subject: RE: Keyslips making keys stick To: pianotech@ptg.org <DIV>Can't you just shim with strips of veneer, or your business cards?  Seems a WHOLE lot easier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Matthew A E <eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=EC_EC_replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"> <STYLE> .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} </STYLE> Well Paul it seems mopst people never use una corda, and what i failed to mention is i ground the screw down with a file to make the ends sand top of it smooth (VERY SMOOTH), as well as a thin piece of either leather of felt on the keyslip where the screw might rub the slip, put plenty of teflon/dag/ or whatever else you might use to lubricate the parts... ive done this on numerous pianos if done right (it was trial and error) it seemed to work fine.... ive done this only on grands but to my imagination it will work even better on uprights...   Screws seem like a good idea too...     I hope this helps   Alicia <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: RE: Keyslips making keys stick From: pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:00:11 -0500 Alicia, Wouldn't this screw cause a horrible grinding on the back of the keyslip (not to mention noise) and eventually gouge out the wood when using the una-corda pedal?  If this customer never uses the una-corda, then I guess it would work.   Another thought would be to drill extra screws in from the bottom of the keybed into the bottom of the keyslip like Baldwins and older M&H's to hold it rigid.  I've seen as many as 5 screws going into the slip from underneath....    {+    +    +    +     +} Paul <TABLE width="100%"> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD width="40%">A E <eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk> Sent by: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org 06/20/2008 10:12 AM <TABLE border=1> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD bgColor=white> <DIV align=center>Please respond to Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD> <TD width="59%"> <TABLE width="100%"> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right>To</DIV></TD> <TD>Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org> </TD></TR> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right>cc</DIV></TD> <TD> </TD></TR> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right>Subject</DIV></TD> <TD>RE: Keyslips making keys stick</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> >From my observation this happens in pianos with a "thin" keyslip, it seems only logic that it will bend or flex... or whatnot... I crossed a few pianos.. european pianos mainly that have a heavy solid keyslip (bout an inch thik), its never been a problem on such pianos... if its wood perhaps its humidity? About 3 weeks ago i had a problem (it was 96*F with 85% humidity) i was seriving a Bechstein, skinny keyslip.. its never been a problem, but the owner called me because the keyslip crowned inward and was jamming the keys... ive worked withthat piano for 2 years and its never been a problem... owner said that piano stood constantly next to an open window... so go figure.. i put a small screw into the front of the keyframe and adjusted it to keep a nice space... hope this helps... Alicia Evans <HR> From: imatunr@srvinet.com To: pmc033@earthlink.net; pianotech@ptg.org Subject: Re: Keyslips making keys stick Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:03:56 -0600 Hi Paul, A small screw placed at the bottom of the inside corner of a cheek block, will cant the front and outside of the block, so that the block will push the key slip out away from the keys. Advantage is that it also keeps the block firmly against the outside arm and is fairly quickly adjustable. Joe Goss RPT Mother Goose Tools <A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A> <A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com/" target=_blank>www.mothergoosetools.com</A> ----- Original Message ----- From: <A href="mailto:pmc033@earthlink.net">Paul McCloud</A> To: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:16 PM Subject: RE: Keyslips making keys stick Hi, Paul: I've seen a lot of this kind of binding with the keyslip.  Especially in said brand.  I used to move the keyframe backward (yeah, I know.  The optimum strike point is lost).  At least the piano would play again.  What really needed to be done was to plug and redrill the dowel pins in the cheek blocks and move the blocks forward a few mm's.  Sometimes I put felt strips on the front of the cheek blocks to shim out the keyslip.  Usually, on the newer grands, the cheek block has a notch which engages the keyslip and holds it.  I've tried shimming up the bottom rear edge of the keyslip, but that does nothing.  I've sometimes also added a small screw to the front of the cheek block, which can be used to adjust the keyslip without shims.  I also sometimes sand the ends of the keyslip so it will fit without binding on the inside of the arms.  Not a huge deal but annoying and time consuming to remedy.  Welcome to the club.     Paul McCloud, RPT     San Diego   Paul McCloud Service Technician for PianoSD.com <A href="http://www.pianoservsd.com/" target=_blank>www.pianoservsd.com</A> Created with free BlueVoda software: <A href="http://www.vodahost.com/partner/idevaffiliate.php?id=9223_1_3_9" target=_blank>http://www.vodahost.com/partner/idevaffiliate.php?id=9223_1_3_9</A>       ----- Original Message ----- From: <A href="mailto:paul@bruesch.net">paul bruesch</A> To: <A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> Sent: 06/19/2008 10:06:57 PM Subject: Keyslips making keys stick I've noticed a number of keyslips that bow (crown?) and/or tilt towards the key fronts, thus causing keys to stick down when played. Today I visited a YC TG150 baby with this problem.  I had pulled the action in it just over a month ago and all was well when I left that day. Today, I could hardly get the keyslip out (or back in), the ends were binding so tightly against the sides... much, MUCH harder than last month.   I've shimmed a couple of these out now with front rail felts which results in a nice even gap, but I curious why I'm seeing so many of these lately. At least 50% are on pianos that I either have not seen or at least not removed the keyslip in the past. The one I did two days ago had a folded up business card (current owner's mom's tuner's card from 20 years ago) already in there. I've only been tuning for about 3-1/2 years, and I see more pianos these days, but the incidence seems to be picking up not! iceably. Is this such a common problem in general? I'm thinking that today's was possibly caused by increased humidity, except I believe there was a thread recently that mentioned that expansion isn't really an issue along the grain... and come to think of it, I don't believe that this keyslip is "wood" anyhow. Thoughts? Paul Bruesch Stillwater, MN <HR> Miss your Messenger buddies when on-the-go? <A href="http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000001ukm/direct/01/" target=_blank>Get Messenger on your Mobile!</A> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Messenger's gone Mobile! <A href="http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000001ukm/direct/01/" target=_blank>Get it now!</A> </BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Miss your Messenger buddies when on-the-go? <A href="http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000001ukm/direct/01/" target=_blank>Get Messenger on your Mobile!</A></BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Get fish-slapping on Messenger! <A href="http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000008ukm/direct/01/" target=_new>Play Now</A> </BLOCKQUOTE>