<html><head><style type="text/css"></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Thanks everyone for your input on the Ernst Kap grand.<br><br>Ron Ochs<br><span style="font-style: italic;"><br><span style="font-weight: bold;">Masterwork Pianos</span><br>(541) 273-1663<br>ron@masterworkpianos.com<br></span></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">----- Original Message ----<br>From: "pianotech-request@ptg.org" <pianotech-request@ptg.org><br>To: pianotech@ptg.org<br>Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 11:00:29 AM<br>Subject: Pianotech Digest, Vol 1300, Issue 134<br><br> Send Pianotech mailing list submissions to<br>    <a ymailto="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>    <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" target="_blank">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>    <a ymailto="mailto:pianotech-request@ptg.org" href="mailto:pianotech-request@ptg.org">pianotech-request@ptg.org</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br>    <a ymailto="mailto:pianotech-owner@ptg.org" href="mailto:pianotech-owner@ptg.org">pianotech-owner@ptg.org</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Pianotech digest..."<br>Today's Topics:<br><br>  1. Re: Ernst Kaps grand (andr? oorebeek)<br><div><br><br>-----Inline Message Follows-----<br><br> <div>In spite of the name 'Pantzer Platte', most of the Ernst Kaps piano's I've come across had broken iron frames.</div><div><br></div><div>friendly greetings</div><div>from</div><div>André Oorebeek</div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Jun 27, 2008, at 1:35 AM, Jurgen Goering wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">Any large, heavy plate is sometimes referred to as "Panzer Platte" in German.<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>If it were cast out of a higher grade, more expensive steel, it would surely be designated "Stahl Platte", to set it apart from a<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>"Guss Platte" (cast iron plate).<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>So much for the language and terminology.</font></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; min-height: 15px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">But who knows exactly what Kaps' plate were made of?<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>One definite answer would be the results of a lab test of a piece of the plate...<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="2">Jurgen Goering</font></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; min-height: 12px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; min-height: 15px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">On Jun 26, 2008, at 15:08, John Delacour wrote:</font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">At 11:40 -0700 26/6/08, Jurgen Goering wrote:</font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">..."Panzer", by the way means nothing more than "strong, protective plate" aka "armored". (Think turtles and bank vaults.)</font></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">Perhaps Kaps used that term in connection with full piano plates as opposed to 3/4 plates?</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin: 0px; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; min-height: 15px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">It could also be that the frames were made of cast steel rather than cast iron.<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>About the turn of the century Broadwood's grand frames were of cast steel, including, I think, the frame for the barless grands.<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>Such a frame would, I think, be extremely tough and very expensive to produce compared with the usual grey iron casting.</font></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">JD</font></div> </blockquote></blockquote></div><br> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><div><br></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span> <br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><div><br></div></span></span></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>Pianotech list info <a href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives" target="_blank">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</a> <div>In spite of the name 'Pantzer Platte', most of the Ernst Kaps piano's I've come across had broken iron frames.</div><div><br></div><div>friendly greetings</div><div>from</div><div>André Oorebeek</div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Jun 27, 2008, at 1:35 AM, Jurgen Goering wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">Any large, heavy plate is sometimes referred to as "Panzer Platte" in German.<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>If it were cast out of a higher grade, more expensive steel, it would surely be designated "Stahl Platte", to set it apart from a<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>"Guss Platte" (cast iron plate).<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>So much for the language and terminology.</font></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; min-height: 15px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">But who knows exactly what Kaps' plate were made of?<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>One definite answer would be the results of a lab test of a piece of the plate...<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="2">Jurgen Goering</font></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; min-height: 12px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; min-height: 15px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">On Jun 26, 2008, at 15:08, John Delacour wrote:</font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">At 11:40 -0700 26/6/08, Jurgen Goering wrote:</font></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">..."Panzer", by the way means nothing more than "strong, protective plate" aka "armored". (Think turtles and bank vaults.)</font></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">Perhaps Kaps used that term in connection with full piano plates as opposed to 3/4 plates?</font></div> </blockquote><div style="margin: 0px; font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; min-height: 15px;"><br></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">It could also be that the frames were made of cast steel rather than cast iron.<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>About the turn of the century Broadwood's grand frames were of cast steel, including, I think, the frame for the barless grands.<span class="Apple-converted-space">  </span>Such a frame would, I think, be extremely tough and very expensive to produce compared with the usual grey iron casting.</font></div><div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Verdana; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Verdana" size="3">JD</font></div> </blockquote></blockquote></div><br> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><div><br></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span> <br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;"><div><br></div></span></span></div></div></div></div></body></html>