<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Take this off list. Quit.FIne. This kind of behavior doesn't belong here.<div>Randy</div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 1, 2008, at 5:07 PM, Matthew Todd wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div align="left"><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hey Alicia,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I mentioned Jesus Christ, because He was the only One who was perfect.  Hence my statement, "besides Jesus Christ".  Try not to be so defensive here.  You are very testy, as others on the list have agreed with me.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">And please, quit "egging on" this subject.  It has gotten you (us) no where.  My apologizes to the list for this.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">And what does "u cal flatten the A" mean?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Please e-mail me privately from now on and we can "talk" there.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Matthew<br><br><b><i>A E <</i></b></span><b><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><a href="mailto:eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk">eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk</a></span></i></b><b><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></span></i></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Matt just one more thing... and this is without offence to anyone... You said besides Jesus Christ you have to yet see perfection.. guess what mate, chances are he didnt exist, no one knows or ever will for sure, people thrue out history have twisted SOOOOOO many things, that the reality of things may be lost... So i suggest you think about what YOU say before you point out my view on "perfection"<br> <br>Well it really doesnt matter now does it, he still calls out the right note.... u cal flatten the  A by a beat or two.... but its still going to be an A... yes?<br> <br>Alicia<br style="mso-special-character: line-break"><br style="mso-special-character: line-break"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <hr align="center" width="100%" size="2"> </span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:42:20 -0700<br>From: <a href="mailto:toddpianoworks@att.net">toddpianoworks@att.net</a><br>Subject: RE: Wives tales ... violin tuning<br>To: </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Alicia,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Perfection is not in the eyes of the beholder, sorry.  You are perfect, or you are not.  Saying "no one is perfect" is safe to say for everyone in this world, including you Alicia.  Knowing what people can and cannot do has nothing to do with this.  People have different talents.  I can operate a skil saw very well, but I still have to use a guide to get a perfectly straight cut.  The most amazing concert pianists practice ALL day.  If they were perfect, there would be no need for them to practice.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You naming the notes as your friends played it is still relative pitch.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As for your friend...telling you how sharp or flat a note within 1 to 2 cents is still not perfect.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Matthew<br><br><b><i>A E <<a href="mailto:eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk">eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk</a>></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I messed around with my friends before who are tied down in musical field, they randomly pressed keys on my piano and 9 out of10 i got it spot on... a few years ago i had a friend (may he rest in peace) who could tell  u exactly how sharp of flat the note was, and get it withing 1-2 cents....<br>there is such a thing i think.... it comes with experience, and knowing ur instrument... or in my case probably sheeer dumb luck...! <br>U cant speak for everyone in this world Matt, u dont know what people can and can not do..<br>as for human perfection... well in that case, perfection is in the eyes of the beholder, and no one else matteres...<br> <br>Alicia<br style="mso-special-character: line-break"><br style="mso-special-character: line-break"><o:p></o:p></span></p> <div class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <hr align="center" width="100%" size="2"> </span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 05:57:58 -0700<br>From: <a href="mailto:toddpianoworks@att.net">toddpianoworks@att.net</a><br>Subject: Re: Wives tales ... violin tuning<br>To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">There is no such thing as PERFECT pitch, only relative pitch.  It someone had perfect pitch, it would mean it would have to be perfect, and besides Jesus Christ, I have yet to see a human that was perfect.  If indeed this customer had perfect pitch, they could be able to tell you that the note was four cents flat.  But because she said the note sounded like a "d", it is relative.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Matthew<br><br><b><i>Richard Brekne <</i></b></span><b><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><a href="mailto:ricb@pianostemmer.no">ricb@pianostemmer.no</a></span></i></b><b><i><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></span></i></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yes... a good sense of relative pitch memory is an interesting thing <br>indeed. Its just that it would be best for all concerned if it were kept <br>better in perspective... i.e. words like Perfect and Absolute left out <br>of it. Severely extreme cases of pitch sensitivity are more a handicap <br>then an asset. Fortunately... there are very very few on this planet <br>that actually suffer to that degree....and correspondingly few that <br>could with any hint of justification fnyss at someone else for erring <br><> pitchwise.<br><br>Cheers<br>RicB<br><br><br>I had a customer a few days ago, whose piano I tuned 2 years ago. <br>She played some notes and said how flat they were...the piano in<br>general sounded reasonable. I got started and the piano was indeed<br>about 4 cents flat and 7 in the treble. When done I asked her if<br>she had perfect pitch...wasn't sure. I played a D and she said that<br>sounded like a D...pretty cool...<br><br>David Ilvedson, RPT<br><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Pacifica</st1:city>, <st1:state w:st="on">CA</st1:state> <st1:postalcode w:st="on">94044</st1:postalcode></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <hr align="center" width="100%" size="2"> </span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Miss your Messenger buddies when on-the-go? <a href="http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000001ukm/direct/01/" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR: #003399; TEXT-DECORATION: none; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; text-underline: none">Get Messenger on your Mobile!</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <hr align="center" width="100%" size="2"> </span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; line-height: 14.4pt; "><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Get fish-slapping on Messenger! <a href="http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000008ukm/direct/01/" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR: #003399; TEXT-DECORATION: none; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; text-underline: none">Play Now</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><br> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>