<table cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0' border='0' ><tr><td valign='top' style='font: inherit;'>Dear friends on this list.   I'd like to add my two cents about Perfect Pitch.  The term is used loosely by us folks in the Music Business to be able to identify a note by its tone without looking at it.  Until I started reading this discussion...there was never a question about how many cents flat or sharp the note actually is.  Just the ability to tell a note by tone...without seeing it.  In my family...there are 3 of us with the so-called Perfect Pitch...myself...my sister and my mother.  You are born with this. It is a gift and should be treated as such.  Many people have the term you use "Relative Pitch".    I  was told I had it early on when Mom played a song on the piano and she missed the note...and I told her what it was and sang it to her.  This was when I was around 9 or 10.  I was tested after by having many notes played...chords included...and I correctly identified all of them....including the individual notes in the chords.   It's both a blessing and curse.  Blessing to help my Bandmates identify chord progressions learning songs...curse when someone is either flat or sharp singing or playing or being asked "what key is that drawbridge in"...that happened to me often earlier in my career playing locally here.   Since tuning pianos...it's neither a blessing nor a curse...just another tool to guide me.  I don't worry about being a couple of cents off either way...we can either identify aurally or use a tuner...and it goes with my territory of being a musician for over 50 years.   Pefect Pitch...in the "human" term...thanks for letting me add my two cents here.   Marc P. Mailhot Marco Polo Music Westbrook, ME USA                --- On Tue, 7/1/08, pianotech-request@ptg.org <pianotech-request@ptg.org> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: pianotech-request@ptg.org <pianotech-request@ptg.org> Subject: Pianotech Digest, Vol 1301, Issue 10 To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 8:50 PM <PRE>Send Pianotech mailing list submissions to pianotech@ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pianotech-request@ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at pianotech-owner@ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Pianotech digest..."</PRE><PRE>Today's Topics: 1. Wives Tales--Pitch (Richard Gullion) 2. RE: Wives tales ... sax and violins (Tom Sivak) 3. Re: Wives tales ... (Ron Nossaman) 4. Re: Wives tales ... (paulrevenkojones@aol.com) 5. Re: Wives tales ... sax and violins (paulrevenkojones@aol.com) 6. RE: Wives tales ... violin tuning (Matthew Todd) 7. Re: vertical legs (Willem Blees) 8. Re: Wives tales ... violin tuning (paul bruesch) 9. Re: SOME COMMON WIVES TALES (paul bruesch) 10. Re: SOME COMMON WIVES TALES (Willem Blees)</PRE> <DIV id=yiv698781487> <STYLE> #yiv698781487 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv698781487 { FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;} </STYLE> When a client boasts to me about perfect pitch etc...I raise my eyebrows and say amazing, what a rare gift. No debate or discussion. Richard the 'Piano Guy' <A href="http://www.thepianoguy.webs.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>www.thepianoguy.webs.com</A> <HR> <A rel=nofollow></A></DIV><PRE>--- A E <eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: > 2. dont persue things, becaus eim not the one being > a d*** > someone should kick u out of here... > Alicia I've subscribed to this list since the 90s, and I've followed many heated discussions in the past. But through all of the furor, innuendos, insults, etc.,--- I have never seen anyone call someone else a "d***". The thought may have been there, but decorum, civility, or a general respect for others on this list prevented them from putting it in print. If I felt as self-important as you, I would proclaim that it is you, my dear, that should be kicked off this list. But it's not for me to say. I can kick no one off this list, with or without sharp tongue. All I can say is that I find your rhetoric distasteful, but that, too, is in the tongue of the beholder, so to speak. I was surprised to find that I, myself had offended others in the course of this discussion. At this point, though, I have to wonder whether referring to someone as a "testy little thing" is in the same category as calling them a "d***". Tom Sivak Chicago</PRE><PRE>> Ron, > Another 10,00 words or so and you would have a nice manifesto! > Kindest Regards, > Garret I have written them. They're out there in the world, at least 10,000 of them, for the most part spelled out as complete words, in recognizable sentences, with nominally appropriate capitalization and punctuation. Especially commas, lots of commas. Ron N</PRE> <DIV id=yiv2119099873> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>-----Original Message----- From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net> To: hpp@highpointpiano.com; Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 6:59 pm Subject: Re: Wives tales ... <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_d378cc3a-efa3-42f1-92fb-82092c2630e8 style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)">> Ron,  > Another 10,00 words or so and you would have a nice manifesto! > Kindest Regards,  > Garret   I have written them. They're out there in the world, at least 10,000 of them, for the most part spelled out as complete words, in recognizable sentences, with nominally appropriate capitalization and punctuation. Especially commas, lots of commas.    Ron N Presumably, most of them Pythagorean. P </DIV> <DIV class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CAA9ECF48FA583-934-1181> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> <A title=http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=aolcmp00050000000011 href="http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=aolcmp00050000000011" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Get the Moviefone Toolbar</A>. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! </DIV></DIV> <DIV id=yiv2029011101> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 3px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><PRE><TT>At this point, though, I have to wonder whether referring to someone as a "testy little thing" is in the same category as calling them a "d***". </TT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> No, different categories. Equally offensive. Lift your spirits, folks and talk to each other like adults. P </DIV> <DIV class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CAA9EDAC5FB81B-934-11B5> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> <A title=http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=aolcmp00050000000011 href="http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=aolcmp00050000000011" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Get the Moviefone Toolbar</A>. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! </DIV></DIV> <DIV id=yiv816131855> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD vAlign=top> <DIV align=left> Hey Alicia,   I mentioned Jesus Christ, because He was the only One who was perfect.  Hence my statement, "besides Jesus Christ".  Try not to be so defensive here.  You are very testy, as others on the list have agreed with me.   And please, quit "egging on" this subject.  It has gotten you (us) no where.  My apologizes to the list for this.   And what does "u cal flatten the A" mean?   Please e-mail me privately from now on and we can "talk" there.   Matthew A E <eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: Matt just one more thing... and this is without offence to anyone... You said besides Jesus Christ you have to yet see perfection.. guess what mate, chances are he didnt exist, no one knows or ever will for sure, people thrue out history have twisted SOOOOOO many things, that the reality of things may be lost... So i suggest you think about what YOU say before you point out my view on "perfection"   Well it really doesnt matter now does it, he still calls out the right note.... u cal flatten the  A by a beat or two.... but its still going to be an A... yes?   Alicia <DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:42:20 -0700 From: toddpianoworks@att.net Subject: RE: Wives tales ... violin tuning To: pianotech@ptg.org Alicia,   Perfection is not in the eyes of the beholder, sorry.  You are perfect, or you are not.  Saying "no one is perfect" is safe to say for everyone in this world, including you Alicia.  Knowing what people can and cannot do has nothing to do with this.  People have different talents.  I can operate a skil saw very well, but I still have to use a guide to get a perfectly straight cut.  The most amazing concert pianists practice ALL day.  If they were perfect, there would be no need for them to practice.   You naming the notes as your friends played it is still relative pitch.   As for your friend...telling you how sharp or flat a note within 1 to 2 cents is still not perfect.   Matthew A E <eve_ane@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: I messed around with my friends before who are tied down in musical field, they randomly pressed keys on my piano and 9 out of10 i got it spot on... a few years ago i had a friend (may he rest in peace) who could tell  u exactly how sharp of flat the note was, and get it withing 1-2 cents.... there is such a thing i think.... it comes with experience, and knowing ur instrument... or in my case probably sheeer dumb luck...! U cant speak for everyone in this world Matt, u dont know what people can and can not do.. as for human perfection... well in that case, perfection is in the eyes of the beholder, and no one else matteres...   Alicia <DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 05:57:58 -0700 From: toddpianoworks@att.net Subject: Re: Wives tales ... violin tuning To: pianotech@ptg.org There is no such thing as PERFECT pitch, only relative pitch.  It someone had perfect pitch, it would mean it would have to be perfect, and besides Jesus Christ, I have yet to see a human that was perfect.  If indeed this customer had perfect pitch, they could be able to tell you that the note was four cents flat.  But because she said the note sounded like a "d", it is relative.   Matthew Richard Brekne <ricb@pianostemmer.no> wrote: Yes... a good sense of relative pitch memory is an interesting thing indeed. Its just that it would be best for all concerned if it were kept better in perspective... i.e. words like Perfect and Absolute left out of it. Severely extreme cases of pitch sensitivity are more a handicap then an asset. Fortunately... there are very very few on this planet that actually suffer to that degree....and correspondingly few that could with any hint of justification fnyss at someone else for erring <> pitchwise. Cheers RicB I had a customer a few days ago, whose piano I tuned 2 years ago. She played some notes and said how flat they were...the piano in general sounded reasonable. I got started and the piano was indeed about 4 cents flat and 7 in the treble. When done I asked her if she had perfect pitch...wasn't sure. I played a D and she said that sounded like a D...pretty cool... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica , CA 94044     <DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> Miss your Messenger buddies when on-the-go? <A href="http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000001ukm/direct/01/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Get Messenger on your Mobile!</A>     <DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </DIV> Get fish-slapping on Messenger! <A href="http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/msnnkmgl0010000008ukm/direct/01/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Play Now</A> </DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </DIV> <DIV id=yiv1717893338>Before ordering,make sure there used to be legs on this piano. It could be a European look. Otherwise, GRK has legs. <DIV style="CLEAR: both">Wim -----Original Message----- From: Phil Bondi <phil@philbondi.com> To: Newtonville <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 9:48 am Subject: vertical legs </DIV> <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_c66a12db-dcb9-49ad-acb8-37d317e28fee style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">Hi all.    Just got off the phone with a woman who wants legs for her vertical piano. It seems she was sold the piano without the legs, and according to her, it's tipsy.    A recommended source is what's needed here.    thanks,    -Phil Bondi(Fl)  </DIV> <DIV class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CAA9F096C4EC1B-111C-DEE> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> <A title=http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=aolcmp00050000000011 href="http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=aolcmp00050000000011" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Get the Moviefone Toolbar</A>. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! </DIV></DIV> <DIV id=yiv1180008795>I tried this... my GF ordered me to "Stop it"!! <DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 10:44 AM, St�phane Collin <<A href="mailto:collin.s@skynet.be" target=_blank rel=nofollow>collin.s@skynet.be</A>> wrote: <snip> <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> <DIV lang=FR-BE> <DIV>Don't think, just sing the beginning of the Beatles song "Yesterday", pretending you are McCartney.  Come on, anybody can do that.  "Yesterdaaaay�" stop here.  On daaay, you will be singing an F.  Try it.  If you are not sure to remember that sound right, try and sing "Hey Juuuude�"  stop here, and knowing both songs are in the same tonality (the tonality that fits Mc Cartney's voice), think that Juuude is an A and is the third of the F major chord, so you can check with the F of Yesterday, and blending both songs will get you even closer.  Believe me, it is impossible to be more than 2 steps off, it would sound weird.  With a little practice, you will get even closer, that is if you aren't yet. </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></snip> </DIV> <DIV id=yiv1598456067>24. (Piano teacher speaking) Well she got it from Bob and he's a good player so I thought it would be a good piano (and well worth $100... about a spinet with at least two dozen hammers with the felt peeling/peeled off and otherwise not even really qualifying as a PSO) <DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Paul T Williams <<A href="mailto:pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu" target=_blank rel=nofollow>pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu</A>> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> 21.  I think somebody replaced the "pads" once 22.  It was totally rebuilt (meaning...maybe new bass strings and/or hammers) 23,  If the soundboard has a crack in it, then it's worthless. <TABLE width="100%"> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD width="40%">"Rob & Helen Goodale" <<A href="mailto:rhgoodale@embarqmail.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>rhgoodale@embarqmail.com</A>> Sent by: <A href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</A> 07/01/2008 12:45 PM <TABLE border=1> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD bgColor=white> <DIV align=center>Please respond to Rob & Helen Goodale <<A href="mailto:rrg@unlv.nevada.edu" target=_blank rel=nofollow>rrg@unlv.nevada.edu</A>>; Please respond to Pianotech List <<A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>pianotech@ptg.org</A>></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD> <TD width="59%"> <TABLE width="100%"> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right>To</DIV></TD> <TD><<A href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>pianotech@ptg.org</A>> </TD></TR> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right>cc</DIV></TD> <TD></TD></TR> <TR vAlign=top> <TD> <DIV align=right>Subject</DIV></TD> <TD>SOME COMMON WIVES TALES</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE> <TBODY> <TR vAlign=top> <TD></TD> <TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV class=Wj3C7c> <TT>Here are a few common or reported piano wives tales.  Feel free to add to the list if you have more. 1.  Plates are made of solid brass 2.  Cases are made of "solid" whatever the veneer happens to be, i.e. "For Sale: solid oak piano". 3.  Full sized uprights are also called grands. 4.  Any old piano MUST be valuable because everyone knows that antiques are priceless. 5.  The piano has had only one owner so therefore it's in good condition. 6.  The piano has had four owners so therefore it must be in poor condition. 7.  The piano used to be owned by the guy who wrote the "Love Boat theme", therefore it's more valuable. 8.  If the keys have real ivory it must be a good piano. 9.  "The salesman told me it's the same brand that Elvis owned so I know its a good piano." 10.  "They just don't make good pianos anymore". 11.  "It was in tune when I bought it but then it went out.  There must be something wrong with it." 12.  "I keep a jar of water under it so that it will stay in tune longer." 13.  "I keep a jar of baking soda inside so that the sound board won't crack." 14.  "I have PERFECT PITCH so I know that this piano isn't tuned right." 15.  "I always have the piano tuned flat so that it will last longer". 16.  "I know it isn't a big deal to fix it, I read about it on the internet". 17.  If you restring a piano it will never sound as good as it did when it was new. 18.  "My piano has gotten used to the way I play it". 19.  "This is the same piano my music teacher owns so I know its a great piano." 20.  "It's not played very much so it never goes out of tune". </TT> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=yiv1357220261> -----Original Message----- From: Rob & Helen Goodale <rhgoodale@embarqmail.com> To: pianotech@ptg.org Sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:40 am Subject: SOME COMMON WIVES TALES <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_9e2faa50-9697-415b-ad3d-c8cbed5b1677 style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">Here are a few common or reported piano wives tales. Feel free to add to the list if you have more.    1. Plates are made of solid brass  2. Cases are made of "solid" whatever the veneer happens to be, i.e. "For Sale: solid oak piano".  3. Full sized uprights are also called grands.  4. Any old piano MUST be valuable because everyone knows that antiques are priceless.  5. The piano has had only one owner so therefore it's in good condition.  6. The piano has had four owners so therefore it must be in poor condition.  7. The piano used to be owned by the guy who wrote the "Love Boat theme", therefore it's more valuable.  8. If the keys have real ivory it must be a good piano.  9. "The salesman told me it's the same brand that Elvis owned so I know its a good piano."  10. "They just don't make good pianos anymore".  11. "It was in tune when I bought it but then it went out. There must be something wrong with it."  12. "I keep a jar of water under it so that it will stay in tune longer."  13. "I keep a jar of baking soda inside so that the sound board won't crack."  14. "I have PERFECT PITCH so I know that this piano isn't tuned right."  15. "I always have the piano tuned flat so that it will last longer".  16. "I know it isn't a big deal to fix it, I read about it on the internet".  17. If you restring a piano it will never sound as good as it did when it was new.  18. "My piano has gotten used to the way I play it".  19. "This is the same piano my music teacher owns so I know its a great piano."  20. "It's not played very much so it never goes out of tune".   21. No one plays it anymore, so it doesn't need to be tuned. 22. The son of a my neighbor had a college roommate, whose father was a piano mover, and he said my Whitney spinet is worth $3000.  </DIV> <DIV class=aol_ad_footer id=u8CAA9F4B45BC01C-111C-EEB> <HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px"> <A title=http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=aolcmp00050000000011 href="http://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=aolcmp00050000000011" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Get the Moviefone Toolbar</A>. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, & more! </DIV></DIV><PRE>_______________________________________________ Pianotech list info https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table>