<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16674" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY text=#000000 bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face="Century Schoolbook" size=2>I didn't even notice that it was reversed. Sometimes I overlook the most basic observations.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Century Schoolbook" size=2>Tom Servinsky</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=smbrooks@sprynet.com href="mailto:smbrooks@sprynet.com">Steve Brooks</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 05, 2008 12:49 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Knowing list members</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Are you referring to the hand movement not matching anything remotely close to the music? <BR>Tom Servinsky <BR><BR>It seemed to me like the image was reversed. The keyboard looked backwards, you know ... like the bass was on the right side of the keyboard and the treble on the left. Can you get digital images reversed like that or am I hallucinating? It seems kind of surreal. <BR><BR>Steve Brooks<BR><BR><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pianotech-request@ptg.org">pianotech-request@ptg.org</A> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:mailman.193.1215172233.2532.pianotech@ptg.org type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Send Pianotech mailing list submissions to <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</A> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pianotech-request@ptg.org">pianotech-request@ptg.org</A> You can reach the person managing the list at <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pianotech-owner@ptg.org">pianotech-owner@ptg.org</A> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Pianotech digest..." </PRE><PRE wrap=""><HR width="90%" SIZE=4> Today's Topics: 1. White Oil [was Customising a piano] (John Delacour) 2. Re: Customising a piano (<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:johndelmore@suddenlink.net">johndelmore@suddenlink.net</A>) 3. Re: Knowing list members (<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:johndelmore@suddenlink.net">johndelmore@suddenlink.net</A>) 4. Re: Knowing list members (<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:johndelmore@suddenlink.net">johndelmore@suddenlink.net</A>) 5. Ballistol and other lubricants (Gregor _) 6. Re: Customer Satisfaction (Matthew Todd) 7. Re: Ballistol and other lubricants (Kent Swafford) 8. Re: Ballistol and other lubricants (Tom Servinsky) 9. Re: Knowing list members (Tom Servinsky) 10. RE: Customizing a piano (Bruce Browning) 11. RE: Ballistol and other lubricants (Gregor _) </PRE><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>White Oil [was Customising a piano]</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV>John Delacour <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:JD@Pianomaker.co.uk"><JD@Pianomaker.co.uk></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:49:24 +0100</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Transfer-Encoding: </DIV>8bit</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">References: </DIV><01195FEB0703133A2A7D001002@David></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">In-Reply-To: </DIV><01195FEB0703133A2A7D001002@David></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:p0624080ac49362ab237a@[10.0.0.1]"><p0624080ac49362ab237a@[10.0.0.1]></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>text/plain; charset="macintosh" ; format="flowed"</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>At 19:58 -0700 3/7/08, somebody wrote: <BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">...One of its selling points is that it is not petro-chemical based, and uses biodegradable ingredients... <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This comes from the Wikipedia article and this contains a link to a quite nonsensical article on White Oil ("White oil is a home made insecticide spray"!!).  One needs to read Wikipedia with great care. <BR><BR>I use White Oil daily as a lubricant in French polishing, as do most French polishers.  I buy it by the gallon, very cheap. Some years ago I asked my supplier what this oil was and all he could tell me was that it is a _mineral_ oil.  French polishers in France call it vaseline oil, and vaseline is petroleum based.  If it is a mineral oil, whether got from coal or oil, then it is most certainly "petro-chemical". <BR><BR>You can also buy white oil for burning in little decorative lamps and it is also almost certainly the pricipal ingredient in Johnson's baby oil and a host of other pharmaceutical products. <BR><BR>If Ballistol is mainly "pharmaceutical White oil: CAS RN 8042-47-5", then I guess it is very little else and can therefore be got for fractions of pennies rather than dollars.  There have always been huge profits to be made from putting valueless liquids into small containers and pretending they're something special. <BR><BR>I doubt very much whether any harm would be done by wiping centre pins with white oil when re-centring would do any harm, but I'm not about to begin doing so. <BR><BR>JD <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>Re: Customising a piano</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:johndelmore@suddenlink.net"><johndelmore@suddenlink.net></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 0:27:19 -0500</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Transfer-Encoding: </DIV>7bit</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">In-Reply-To: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:fdf610640807031744w6f247393gc505a07132321ce1@mail.gmail.com"><fdf610640807031744w6f247393gc505a07132321ce1@mail.gmail.com></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><20080704002719.JFJ0R.38927.root@Web03></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>text/plain; charset=utf-8</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><PRE wrap="">Lord, you old coots need to quit pickin' on that girl!! It's just a shame that you've forgotten 95% of what you knew when you were twenty!! Myself, I'm a babe in the woods at 43, and only been muckin' around with pianos for three or four years, and Bosie ain't taught me a thing!! But, I have been a chemist for twenty years. And the Hoppe's oil is very likely made practically in my backyard, at Calumet. In my CHEMICALLY professional opinion, it's not nearly as bad as using WD-40 or 'three-in-one' or most of the other horrid things that people try. But it's not optimal. It will break down, but so will everything else (teflon, perhaps, excluded...unless you're playing that piano on Venus). The biggest problem I see from the MSDS is that it has added fragrances. That's evil. The best solution, from a chemical standpoint, and IMHO (sorry for the 'text-speak'...LOL...aw, heck, I did it again!!) for the piano, is to size the bushings properly with heat, water and methanol (all of which GO AWAY) and whatever reaming is necessary. Alicia, you're obviously a strong, talented and opinionated woman. Nothing wrong with that. You'll likely put some "artists" in their place some day. But I've seen the "old greybeards" learn stuff on this list... The key word is "professional". A Happy Fourth: life, liberty and happiness to you all, and those you love!! John </PRE><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>Re: Knowing list members</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:johndelmore@suddenlink.net"><johndelmore@suddenlink.net></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 0:41:28 -0500</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Transfer-Encoding: </DIV>7bit</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">In-Reply-To: </DIV><99D46D07FFCC4287A7C4003327FCC97D@D5XVKT41></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><20080704004128.J87M0.38991.root@Web03></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>text/plain; charset=utf-8</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><PRE wrap="">Well, I don't know if she tuned the piano or not (did anybody else hear weird 'recording' issues?), but I do know that she has bigger cojones than me to put THAT piece out to the world. I liked the spirit. John Delmore ---- <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pianolady50@peoplepc.com">pianolady50@peoplepc.com</A> wrote: </PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">This was brought to my attention and does explain a lot. <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.aliciaevans.9k.com">www.aliciaevans.9k.com</A> Best to all, Debbie Legg </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> </PRE><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>Re: Knowing list members</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:johndelmore@suddenlink.net"><johndelmore@suddenlink.net></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 0:52:56 -0500</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Transfer-Encoding: </DIV>7bit</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><20080704005256.74RQH.39041.root@Web03></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>text/plain; charset=utf-8</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>4</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><PRE wrap="">Well, I don't know if she tuned the piano or not (did anybody else hear weird 'recording' issues?), but I do know that she has bigger cojones than me to put THAT piece out to the world. I liked the spirit. John Delmore ---- <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pianolady50@peoplepc.com">pianolady50@peoplepc.com</A> wrote: </PRE> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><PRE wrap="">This was brought to my attention and does explain a lot. <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.aliciaevans.9k.com">www.aliciaevans.9k.com</A> Best to all, Debbie Legg </PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><PRE wrap=""> </PRE><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>Ballistol and other lubricants</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV>Gregor _ <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:karlkaputt@hotmail.com"><karlkaputt@hotmail.com></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 12:39:52 +0200</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl"><BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>multipart/alternative; boundary="_85f0ace7-1499-423f-b331-be0cf484eae0_"</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR> <STYLE>.hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } </STYLE> Using Ballistol as lubricant for action center pins is okay. I have no idea about its ingredients but the reason why nearly all German piano techs use it since generations is that it does not gum after a while. Most of my German collegues use a tool like this for applying only one drop of it:<BR><BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.manufactum.de/Produkt/0/753674/TropfenoelerAluminium.html?suchbegriff=%F6ler">http://www.manufactum.de/Produkt/0/753674/TropfenoelerAluminium.html?suchbegriff=%F6ler</A><BR><BR>One year ago, me too I used it for center pins, but in the meantime I use only Protec CLP anymore. I have 2 of these oilers  in my toolcase, one with Protec and one with Ballistol. Ballistol (and now Protec) are the only one lubricants which are accepted here in Germany for center pins. With one exception: your own hair grease (not kidding). When replacing a ceter pin, I pull the new pin through my hair which makes the pin getting "lubricated". And no, I am not the hippie type with greasy long hair.<BR><BR>Compairing Ballistol with Protec I must admit that Protec just works much better. But I never had problems with Ballistol.<BR><BR>Concerning ballance rail and front rail pins: most German techs use deer tallow /stag fat because it�s supposed not to gum, too. I rub a very small portion of it between thumb and index finger and apply only a very very thin layer on the pins. But never do it when the bushings are made of leather. Never apply any liquid or any grease on leather. But here too, there is one exception: you may use "nose fat" (and again: not kidding): sometimes the leather of the hammer butt is too harsh so that the jack comes not back easy enough. Some grease could help, but as mentioned: never apply grease on leather in pianos. So here comes the trick: rub your index finger left or right from your nose. You will feel that this part of your face is a little greasier than other parts. Then rub your finger on the hammer butt leather. And no, I am not the teenage type like these teenagers from Kentucky Fried Movie where teenage faces are used to get oil from.<BR><BR>Gregor<BR><BR> <HR> Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. <A href="http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx%20" target=_new moz-do-not-send="true">Check it out!</A><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>Re: Customer Satisfaction</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV>Matthew Todd <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:toddpianoworks@att.net"><toddpianoworks@att.net></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:50:53 -0700 (PDT)</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Transfer-Encoding: </DIV>8bit</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">In-Reply-To: </DIV><0e7101c8dd0b$f4306450$650fa8c0@HPa600N></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:836818.69375.qm@web83827.mail.sp1.yahoo.com"><836818.69375.qm@web83827.mail.sp1.yahoo.com></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1314122729-1215168653=:69375"</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>So, I have returned from the dreaded appointment.  It actually went pretty fair.  I tried several things on the note she was complaining about, but I don't really think it did much.  She actually said it improved, but it really didn't.  But hey, if she said it did, I wasn't going to argue with her.<BR><BR>The note in question is D-30.  The piano is a Baldwin grand, and the D is the note just before the copper wound strings.  I did two things to the note.<BR><BR>I spent some time voicing, and then I made sure the knuckle and jack relationship was where it is supposed to be.  It was off some.<BR><BR>If you were to play a D Major scale, by the time you hit D-30, it just doesn't quite match the previous notes.  It doesn't quite have the "life" the others have.  It is not bad.  In fact, if she didn't point it out to me (I wish she hadn't!) I wouldn't have noticed it when I tuned it a month ago.  There is just a little "thud" when you play it.  Or like the note is sounding with just a little less force and volume than the rest.  She demonstrated the way it sounds to her by playing a Sonata she had been practicing.  In the piece she is repeating the D, and that is how she probably discovered it.<BR><BR>I know this will be difficult to diagnose over the internet, and it is definitely not something severe that calls for another tech, but it is a good learning experience for me, and I did tell her I wasn't going to give up, or call her "picky" or "crazy".<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR>Matthew<BR><BR><B><I>Michael Kurta <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:mkurta@roadrunner.com"><mkurta@roadrunner.com></A></I></B> wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16674" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>    Matthew:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>    First, get a clear explanation and demonstration from the customer as to their complaint.  Some folks have a hard time explaining so you'll need to help them with this.  You need all the information you can get to diagnose accurately.  Second try your best to remedy their problem.  95% of complaints are real and noticeable to the player, though there are some which may not be correctable, and others that are imagined.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>    Failing your efforts to make them happy, call upon another, more experienced tech to help, even if you have to pay for their time.  Chalk it up to training as we've all had to do this once in awhile.  Sometimes a second opinion will reinforce your solution, and the customer will be satisfied.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>    My favorite motto is:  "The customer isn't always right, but they're always the customer."  Good Luck and let us know how it all worked out.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>    Mike Kurta, RPT</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>    Syracuse chapter </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>    Moving to the Chicago chapter August 1.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>Re: Ballistol and other lubricants</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV>Kent Swafford <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:kswafford@gmail.com"><kswafford@gmail.com></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 06:10:13 -0500</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0 (Apple Message framework v926)</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">References: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl"><BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">In-Reply-To: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl"><BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:5E8584F0-6220-4FC8-A721-779F54113416@gmail.com"><5E8584F0-6220-4FC8-A721-779F54113416@gmail.com></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4-639412109</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>7</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR> <DIV>By coincidence, a tech here in Kansas City recently recommended this same oiler to me. I wish the reservoir was a bit bigger, but it appears to be a fine device. Available at:</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KKHNU0" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KKHNU0</A></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Kent Swafford</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><BR> <DIV> <DIV>On Jul 4, 2008, at 5:39 AM, Gregor _ wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2"> <DIV class=hmmessage style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Using Ballistol as lubricant for action center pins is okay. I have no idea about its ingredients but the reason why nearly all German piano techs use it since generations is that it does not gum after a while. Most of my German collegues use a tool like this for applying only one drop of it:<BR><BR><A href="http://www.manufactum.de/Produkt/0/753674/TropfenoelerAluminium.html?suchbegriff=%F6ler" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.manufactum.de/Produkt/0/753674/TropfenoelerAluminium.html?suchbegriff=%F6ler</A><BR><BR>One year ago, me too I used it for center pins, but in the meantime I use only Protec CLP anymore. I have 2 of these oilers  in my toolcase, one with Protec and one with Ballistol. Ballistol (and now Protec) are the only one lubricants which are accepted here in Germany for center pins. With one exception: your own hair grease (not kidding). When replacing a ceter pin, I pull the new pin through my hair which makes the pin getting "lubricated". And no, I am not the hippie type with greasy long hair.<BR><BR>Compairing Ballistol with Protec I must admit that Protec just works much better. But I never had problems with Ballistol.<BR><BR>Concerning ballance rail and front rail pins: most German techs use deer tallow /stag fat because it�s supposed not to gum, too. I rub a very small portion of it between thumb and index finger and apply only a very very thin layer on the pins. But never do it when the bushings are made of leather. Never apply any liquid or any grease on leather. But here too, there is one exception: you may use "nose fat" (and again: not kidding): sometimes the leather of the hammer butt is too harsh so that the jack comes not back easy enough. Some grease could help, but as mentioned: never apply grease on leather in pianos. So here comes the trick: rub your index finger left or right from your nose. You will feel that this part of your face is a little greasier than other parts. Then rub your finger on the hammer butt leather. And no, I am not the teenage type like these teenagers from Kentucky Fried Movie where teenage faces are used to get oil from.<BR><BR>Gregor<BR><BR> <HR> Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com.<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx%20" target=_new moz-do-not-send="true">Check it out!</A></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>Re: Ballistol and other lubricants</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV>"Tom Servinsky" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:tompiano@bellsouth.net"><tompiano@bellsouth.net></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 07:27:23 -0400</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>"Pianotech List" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>"Pianotech List" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">References: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl"><BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><001e01c8ddc8$ee586fb0$0201a8c0@pianocraft></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C8DDA7.66A70D40"</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>8</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR> <STYLE>.hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } </STYLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.5730.13" name=GENERATOR> <DIV><FONT face="Century Schoolbook">Gregor,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Century Schoolbook">You guys over there are very "earthy" with your remedies. Hair grease, nose grease. Leaves me with some ideas of  what else they may use...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Century Schoolbook">Tom Servinsky</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> <A title=karlkaputt@hotmail.com href="mailto:karlkaputt@hotmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Gregor _</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" moz-do-not-send="true">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 04, 2008 6:39 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> Ballistol and other lubricants</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Using Ballistol as lubricant for action center pins is okay. I have no idea about its ingredients but the reason why nearly all German piano techs use it since generations is that it does not gum after a while. Most of my German collegues use a tool like this for applying only one drop of it:<BR><BR><A href="http://www.manufactum.de/Produkt/0/753674/TropfenoelerAluminium.html?suchbegriff=%F6ler" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.manufactum.de/Produkt/0/753674/TropfenoelerAluminium.html?suchbegriff=%F6ler</A><BR><BR>One year ago, me too I used it for center pins, but in the meantime I use only Protec CLP anymore. I have 2 of these oilers  in my toolcase, one with Protec and one with Ballistol. Ballistol (and now Protec) are the only one lubricants which are accepted here in Germany for center pins. With one exception: your own hair grease (not kidding). When replacing a ceter pin, I pull the new pin through my hair which makes the pin getting "lubricated". And no, I am not the hippie type with greasy long hair.<BR><BR>Compairing Ballistol with Protec I must admit that Protec just works much better. But I never had problems with Ballistol.<BR><BR>Concerning ballance rail and front rail pins: most German techs use deer tallow /stag fat because it�s supposed not to gum, too. I rub a very small portion of it between thumb and index finger and apply only a very very thin layer on the pins. But never do it when the bushings are made of leather. Never apply any liquid or any grease on leather. But here too, there is one exception: you may use "nose fat" (and again: not kidding): sometimes the leather of the hammer butt is too harsh so that the jack comes not back easy enough. Some grease could help, but as mentioned: never apply grease on leather in pianos. So here comes the trick: rub your index finger left or right from your nose. You will feel that this part of your face is a little greasier than other parts. Then rub your finger on the hammer butt leather. And no, I am not the teenage type like these teenagers from Kentucky Fried Movie where teenage faces are used to get oil from.<BR><BR>Gregor<BR><BR> <HR> Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. <A href="http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx%20" target=_new moz-do-not-send="true">Check it out!</A> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>Re: Knowing list members</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV>"Tom Servinsky" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:tompiano@bellsouth.net"><tompiano@bellsouth.net></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 07:29:04 -0400</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>"Pianotech List" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>"Pianotech List" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Transfer-Encoding: </DIV>7bit</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">References: </DIV><20080704005256.74RQH.39041.root@Web03></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><002801c8ddc9$2ac026a0$0201a8c0@pianocraft></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>9</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>Are you referring to the hand movement not matching anything remotely close to the music? <BR>Tom Servinsky <BR>----- Original Message ----- From: <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:johndelmore@suddenlink.net"><johndelmore@suddenlink.net></A> <BR>To: "Pianotech List" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A> <BR>Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 1:52 AM <BR>Subject: Re: Knowing list members <BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Well, I don't know if she tuned the piano or not (did anybody else hear weird 'recording' issues?), but I do know that she has bigger cojones than me to put THAT piece out to the world.  I liked the spirit. <BR><BR>John Delmore <BR>---- <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pianolady50@peoplepc.com">pianolady50@peoplepc.com</A> wrote: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">This was brought to my attention and does explain a lot. <BR><BR><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.aliciaevans.9k.com">www.aliciaevans.9k.com</A> <BR><BR>Best to all, <BR>Debbie Legg <BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>RE: Customizing a piano</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV>"Bruce Browning" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:justpianos@our.net.au"><justpianos@our.net.au></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 21:19:36 +1000</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>"'Ed Sutton'" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:ed440@mindspring.com"><ed440@mindspring.com></A>, "'Pianotech List'" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>"'Ed Sutton'" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:ed440@mindspring.com"><ed440@mindspring.com></A>, "'Pianotech List'" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Transfer-Encoding: </DIV>7bit</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">References: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:cb7.32b952b3.359e867e@aol.com"><cb7.32b952b3.359e867e@aol.com></A> <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:486D36D7.9070900@cox.net"><486D36D7.9070900@cox.net></A><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:BLU143-DS4F88B7DFBE92CBFD00FD0DD980@phx.gbl"><BLU143-DS4F88B7DFBE92CBFD00FD0DD980@phx.gbl></A> <97E213B526E44AA7922C96796D4B0D74@EdPC></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">In-Reply-To: </DIV><97E213B526E44AA7922C96796D4B0D74@EdPC></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:justpianos@our.net.au">justpianos@our.net.au</A>, Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><000001c8ddc7$da438e70$6401a8c0@BRU></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>text/plain; charset="us-ascii"</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>10</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><PRE wrap="">Since all this truth has come out about Ballistol I haven't heard an apology to Alicia. Come on guys, fair is fair! Bruce Browning The Piano Tuner -----Original Message----- From: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</A> [<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</A>] On Behalf Of Ed Sutton Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:56 AM To: Pianotech List Subject: Re: Customizing a piano Well...somebody has to say it: Ballistol (Gun oil) is commonly recommended by major German manufacturers as an action lubricant. As recently as June 2008 it was recommended by a well-known American piano designer in a class in Anaheim. It is especially recommended to lubricate leather key bushings. Diluted with alcohol it is used like Protek. As to any distinct differences between German Ballistol and Hoppes gun oil (which Alicia used), I cannot speak. Best regards, Ed Sutton (flame suit on, as Conrad H. likes to say) </PRE><BR> <HR width="90%" SIZE=4> <BR> <TABLE class=header-part1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Subject: </DIV>RE: Ballistol and other lubricants</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">From: </DIV>Gregor _ <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:karlkaputt@hotmail.com"><karlkaputt@hotmail.com></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Date: </DIV>Fri, 4 Jul 2008 13:45:02 +0200</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part2 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE class=header-part3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Precedence: </DIV>list</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">MIME-Version: </DIV>1.0</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">References: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl"><BLU116-W3252B809BD5C9EFB2DA20DD49B0@phx.gbl></A> <001e01c8ddc8$ee586fb0$0201a8c0@pianocraft></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">In-Reply-To: </DIV><001e01c8ddc8$ee586fb0$0201a8c0@pianocraft></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Reply-To: </DIV>Pianotech List <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org"><pianotech@ptg.org></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message-ID: </DIV><A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:BLU116-W24FFD3046D30837C5F63FAD49B0@phx.gbl"><BLU116-W24FFD3046D30837C5F63FAD49B0@phx.gbl></A></TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Content-Type: </DIV>multipart/alternative; boundary="_6c65fe06-220b-495d-8b48-dd59304b1247_"</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> <DIV class=headerdisplayname style="DISPLAY: inline">Message: </DIV>11</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR> <STYLE> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } </STYLE> Tom,<BR><BR>don�t ask for details. You don�t want to know it really....:-)<BR><BR>Gregor<BR><BR> <HR> From: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:tompiano@bellsouth.net">tompiano@bellsouth.net</A><BR>To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A><BR>Subject: Re: Ballistol and other lubricants<BR>Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 07:27:23 -0400<BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator> <STYLE> .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} </STYLE> <DIV><FONT face="Century Schoolbook">Gregor,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Century Schoolbook">You guys over there are very "earthy" with your remedies. Hair grease, nose grease. Leaves me with some ideas of  what else they may use...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Century Schoolbook">Tom Servinsky</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B> <A title=karlkaputt@hotmail.com href="mailto:karlkaputt@hotmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">Gregor _</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" moz-do-not-send="true">pianotech@ptg.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 04, 2008 6:39 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B> Ballistol and other lubricants</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Using Ballistol as lubricant for action center pins is okay. I have no idea about its ingredients but the reason why nearly all German piano techs use it since generations is that it does not gum after a while. Most of my German collegues use a tool like this for applying only one drop of it:<BR><BR><A href="http://www.manufactum.de/Produkt/0/753674/TropfenoelerAluminium.html?suchbegriff=%F6ler" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.manufactum.de/Produkt/0/753674/TropfenoelerAluminium.html?suchbegriff=%F6ler</A><BR><BR>One year ago, me too I used it for center pins, but in the meantime I use only Protec CLP anymore. I have 2 of these oilers  in my toolcase, one with Protec and one with Ballistol. Ballistol (and now Protec) are the only one lubricants which are accepted here in Germany for center pins. With one exception: your own hair grease (not kidding). When replacing a ceter pin, I pull the new pin through my hair which makes the pin getting "lubricated". And no, I am not the hippie type with greasy long hair.<BR><BR>Compairing Ballistol with Protec I must admit that Protec just works much better. But I never had problems with Ballistol.<BR><BR>Concerning ballance rail and front rail pins: most German techs use deer tallow /stag fat because it�s supposed not to gum, too. I rub a very small portion of it between thumb and index finger and apply only a very very thin layer on the pins. But never do it when the bushings are made of leather. Never apply any liquid or any grease on leather. But here too, there is one exception: you may use "nose fat" (and again: not kidding): sometimes the leather of the hammer butt is too harsh so that the jack comes not back easy enough. Some grease could help, but as mentioned: never apply grease on leather in pianos. So here comes the trick: rub your index finger left or right from your nose. You will feel that this part of your face is a little greasier than other parts. Then rub your finger on the hammer butt leather. And no, I am not the teenage type like these teenagers from Kentucky Fried Movie where teenage faces are used to get oil from.<BR><BR>Gregor<BR><BR> <HR> Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. <A href="http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx%20" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">Check it out!</A> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. <A href="http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx%20" target=_new moz-do-not-send="true">Check it out!</A> <PRE wrap=""><HR width="90%" SIZE=4> _______________________________________________ Pianotech list info <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives">https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives</A></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">-- "In 2008, it is absolutely clear that we will be involved in nation building for years to come." 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