<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">  <style>  </style>  </head> <body lang=EN-US link="#000000" vlink="#000000"> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Hi Dale:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Thanks for your further info. For a very long time I have been buying my hammers in the raw state – unbored, no coving, curving, tapering, etc.; and then taking them through the cycle of boring, tapering, etc. That allows me to use my hammer jig, where I pre-voice the hammers by needling them, and then file them. Both of which can be done more quickly and consistently than when you work with the hammers mounted. Then, of course, you listen and voice in the piano followed by the finer grits as your ear tells you.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Of course, all this adds work and time. But I think it gives you results that no other method does. And it seems better suited to some hammer makes than others. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>One thing I love about voicing is that there are a million little tricks. If you are smart enough and live long enough, maybe you can learn them all. <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Will<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>erwinspiano@aol.com<br> <b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 07, 2008 10:15 PM<br> <b>To:</b> pianotech@ptg.org<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Steve Brady's book...<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=MsoNormal><br> <br> <span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'> Hey Will<br>   I meant to comment the other day about the mysterious effects of filing wool hammer felt.  I spent 3 hours with Jack Brand from Wurzen. felt co.  My new best frie,  Mr. Felt himself. He & I had  agreat time talking felt.  Mostly I listened.  Of all the felt products they produce He's most passionate about hammer felt...anyway  one thing he said also resonated with my experience.  HE said EVERY set of hammer needs to be filed.  The outside layers of felt are some how quite unproductive for tone production perhaps overtensioned from pressing.   Sorry I don't' remember the pure technical reason but our experience of filing hammers with finer & finer grades of sandpaper confirms this. It removes the fuzz which can dampen high partials but also does something to literally condition the felt, or homogenize it into a more unitized felt body. Yes, we are filing off felt that is clinging to the outside that is doing nothing but adding weight but our Rubbing of the cold iron over the top or even a flat hard sandpaper file or bare  polished  maple paddle may actually have a further felting process.<br>    Filing actually builds up a fair amount of heat which may cause the wool fibers to felt even further.  Jacks method of felt making is one where he wants to get the fibers to open up & blend together as much as possible.  Well... actually not because then we'd be working with buffing wheel density of felt...Not good.<br> </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>  Dale</span><o:p></o:p></p> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_776b62a8-166a-411e-91e1-a1eb1cf97878"> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>I agree with Allen on the use of the finer grits of sandpaper along with deep needling.  On the right piano, it can bring out amazing amounts of color and texture, particularly in the bass and tenor section.  I recall a Mason & Hamlin BB  with Renner Blues that I voiced in this manner a few years ago.  I actually overneedled a bit near the crown in the tenor section, which made the tone very round but a bit fuzzy.  After progressing with grits up to 2000 grit, the sound was transformed.  The sound shape became  much more defined, and the color – chocolaty, velvety textures, oh my!  It was a piano that I was selling, and I started calling it the two chord wonder.   A player would come in, sit down,  play a couple of chords, and start making orgasmic noises….</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>All that to say that with a piano of a particular tonal character, it will turn a good piano into a piano with a great voice.  All this, and sustain by the truckload!</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>I usually taper off the grits as I progress from the tenor up.  Some pianos can sound too antiseptic in the low treble if the grits are too fine.  Also, don’t overneedle near the crown in the bass.  I don’t know why, but the bass hammers seem to be more sensitive to the needles, so listen carefully as you proceed.  But it can bring a great deal of color to the bass as well.  Also, I sometimes use a hammer iron where I have buffed the contacting surface to a high and smooth polish.  I rub it back and forth over the top of the crown to (cold) iron the felt down.  I do this when I am looking for just a smidgen more focus to the attack, but a hot iron would add too much edge.  </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Allen’s tips are definitely ones that you want to have in your bag of tricks if you want to do really high level voicing and create Beauty in a piano’s voice.  Your customers will love you for it.  </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Will Truitt</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org"><u><span style='color:blue'>pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</span></u></a> [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org?"><u><span style='color:blue'>mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</span></u></a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Allen Wright<br> <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 02, 2008 5:48 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ilvey@sbcglobal.net"><u><span style='color:blue'>ilvey@sbcglobal.net</span></u></a>; Pianotech List; College and University Technicians<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Steve Brady's book...</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>David,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>Speaking of fitting hammers to strings; for years now I've preferred the method where you lift the hammers out of the way, then lay a long strip of bushing cloth over the tops of the reps, drop the hammers back down and carefully slide the action back in; this causes the hammers to block (if letoff is reasonably close) and you can then comfortably, and with very subtle control, lift the hammers to the strings using the piano key - rather than bending over and using a string lifting hook, or pushing up from under the whippen. I find it so much easier to control than either of those two methods. And way easier on the body; doing it from such a relaxed position encourages me to be even more careful, and enjoy the process more. <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>Collodion is great as a touch-up or refining voicing solution. Often it's used diluted with ether, but that's dangerous stuff, and seems difficult to come buy (perhaps it's very carefully controlled? - not sure) so I recently mixed up some collodion with acetone, and it worked fine. Didn't explode or anything  : )   Having used keytop/acetone for many years, my impression of using collodion is that it seems to create a slightly less edgy or brittle quality to the tone than keytop. This may just be subjective impression - I haven't done an A/B comparison; I should, and report back. <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>I agree with David Love that these hammers are "deep-toned" really vigorously at first (some may require as many as 150-200 deep strokes) to create resilience, but then just require the usual kinds of maintenance or control voicing, usually near or at the strike point (much like NY hammers, really). Another way of describing the effect this gives is to say that the tone goes from very vertical (perhaps what David describes as "swallowed up" and one-dimensional) to a more spread out and horizontal tone, with more timbral and dynamic variety.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>All this needling may require several shaping sessions, and finishing using 1200 or even 2000 grit paper will give you super smooth and refined looking hammers, no doubt about it. Do that to Hamburg Renners that are intelligently shaped and needled and you'll create a warm and beautiful sound with nice focused clarity in the attack. It sounds extreme, but it can make a really nice difference.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>Allen Wright, RPT<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>London, England<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 2, 2008, at 12:08 AM, David Ilvedson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'>List,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'>FYI...</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'>In Steve's excellent book, he has interviews with technicians.   One fellow, Ulrich Gerhartz, London Steinway, wrote about how he maintains the voicing on his 13 Hamburg Ds...to paraphrase:   he starts with deep needling, low in the shoulders.  All of the hammers...sometimes below the staple until he is satisfied the shoulder felt has sufficient resiliency.  (I would like to know how he determines that resiliency?...at Yamaha/Buena Park, they kept saying I hadn't deep needled enough...;-]...the projection was quite there I guess...) He then files to restore the shape and attack.  Maybe a few drops of collodian. (wish I had access to that...?)   He finishes up with polishing the hammers from 400 grit to maybe 1200 grit sandpaper.  He fits hammers to strings with a hook rather than under the wippen/jack ala Yamaha.   I am interested in approaching our Hamburg D in this manner...I was especially interested to read about the deep shoulder needling as a regular part of the maintenance...apparently, with playing the shoulders get compacted too...</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'>David Ilvedson, RPT<br> Pacifica, CA 94044</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"; color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br> <br> </span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id=u8CAAEBFF1582B57-1398-6C90> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-top:7.5pt;text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </span></div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-top:7.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The Famous, the infamous, the lame - in your browser. <a href="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014" target="_blank" title="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014"><u><span style='color:blue'>Get the TMZ Toolbar Now</span></u></a>!</span> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> </body> </html>