<br><br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Kendall Ross Bean <<a href="mailto:kenbean@pacbell.net">kenbean@pacbell.net</a>> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>Hi, I haven't posted to the listserve before so let's see if this works.</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>I had some questions about the different types of tuning pins and wondered if someone here could answer them. (I'm <em>trying</em> to write an article about tuning pins).</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>It might be nice to have some discussion on something that many technicians seem to take for granted: why tuning pins come in the types and form that they currently do.</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>(This may have all been covered before somewhere in the Archives, but if it was, I couldn't find it. So if it's there, I apologize in advance; could someone just point me to where it is? Thanks.)</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>I've attached a photo for reference. </span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>The photo refers to the three basic types of tuning pins we routinely see. (These were all photographed together at the same time on the same white background. The photo is "unretouched." -The colors in the photo seem to be fatihful to the genuine articles.)</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>On the far left is a blued steel pin, in the middle a nickel plated pin, and on the far right a nickel plated/blued thread pin. (The end pins are Nippon Denro, the middle pin I think from an Asian piano, maybe Kawai, as it seems to be metric.)</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>The pin in the middle has generally fallen into disrepute (I think I know why, because the threads are plated, right?) -but perhaps we need to re-examine this. Maybe this type of pin is still valid for certain extreme humidity applications?</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>The following questions pertain mainly to the "blued" vs "nickel-blued pins".</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>The questions I have are:</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>1) Why are the threads on the "blued steel" pin a different color than on the "nickel-blued" pin? (also - Why aren't the the threads on the "blued" pin the same color as the unthreaded portion of the pin?)</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>2) If the threads on the "nickel-blued" pin are cut after nickel plating, (which should remove the plating on the threads right?) and then are heated in the bluing oven, why aren't they the same color blue as the unthreaded part of the "blued" pin? </span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>3) I am speculating that perhaps the threads on the blued pin are cut after bluing (which removes the bluing, to a certain extent, just like it removes the layer of nickel plating on the nickel blued pin) while the threads on the nickel blued pin are blued after cutting. Does the order in which the operations are done affect the quality of the thread? Does having to cut through nickel plating produce an inferior thread?</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>4) Would anyone here care to restate why the blued pins (as opposed to nickel-blued) are preferred over the nickel-blued by many piano technicians?</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>5) What is the real purpose of the threads on the tuning pin, (besides to help back the pin out in restringing. One source I have read says the threads make it easier to turn the pin in the pinblock (as opposed to an unthreaded pin). Any thoughts on this?</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>6) Today apparently all tuning pins have "cut" threads, as opposed to "rolled" threads. Why is this? What does "rolled" threads mean? Why would they be inferior to cut threads?"</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>7) Catherine Beilefeldt, in her book "The Wonders of the Piano", in describing the process at AMSCO (when it was still around), says that there both the nickel-blued and blued pins were blued after threading. Does anyone know if Nippon Denro does it differently? How about Fly Brand? Diamond?</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>8) What, exactly, are the infamous "reverse cut" threads that were touted so highly by certain sales reps and dealers of Japanese pianos?</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>9) What about Larry Fine's and Art Reblitz's contention that if this were really the case (if the "reverse cut" or "reverse thread" pin turned more easily in one direction than the other) it would wear the pin block out faster?</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>10) Why, really, did manufacturers (except Bosendorfer) stop using tapered pins? </span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>I have a number of books that touch on the manufacture of piano tuning pins, but none that really seems to have more than a superficial understanding of why tuning pins are made the way they are today. </span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>If anyone knows of a reference work or resource that would have the history of the development of tuning pins, or an article in the PTJ (or even a thread in the CAUT or Pianotech archives) that addresses these issues, I would be very grateful if they would let me know where I can find it. You can either post your answers on the listserve, ideally, where all could benefit, or e-mail me personally at address below, if you prefer.</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>Sincerely,</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>Kendall Ross Bean</span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span>PianoFinders </span></font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><span><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span>(</span>e-mail: </font></font><a title="mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com" href="mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com" target="_blank"><font face="Arial" size="2">kenbean@pianofinders.com</font></a><font face="Arial"><font size="2">)<span></span></font></font></span></div> <div align="left"> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span></span></font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"><span><em></em></span></font> </div></div> <div> </div></div></blockquote></div> <div>Hi Kendall,</div> <div> </div> <div>I don't begin to know the answers to all of your questions but I can answer some and give my opinion on others.</div> <div> </div> <div>In answer to your questions number 1 & 2 the color, IMHO, is different because the pins are blued, then plated, then the threads are cut removing the plate leaving the blued pin underneath showing. Since it was heated(for the plating process) I'm surmising that the color change occurred due to the heating.<br> </div> <div>The answer to number 4 is they are cheaper! <g></div> <div> </div> <div>Regarding number 5 & 6, I ran across a piano once years ago with rolled threads, they looked as if they had been stamped onto the pin but they could have been rolled, I suppose. It was a Jesse French spinet, it didn't hold tune very well, it felt very mushy and the center tuning pin of middle C wouldn't hold even after a thorough dosing with PinTite, this was 20 years ago before we thought of using CA on loose blocks. I removed the pin and discovered it hadn't been threaded, it was as smooth as a baby's butt over 2/3's of it's length and only partially threaded on the upper 1/3 near the becket. If I hadn't believed in threaded pins prior to that, it convinced me to never doubt them.</div> <div> </div> <div>Finally number 8, the reverse cut pin. I asked a friend, my mentor about them once and his response was very illuminating. He told me that all cut thread pins exhibit this characteristic, it's inherent in the way the metal is cut. Kawai just decided to make a selling feature out of it. Take any cut thread tuning pin have someone hold it tightly with a piece of cloth and attempt to turn it in reverse, you will find the same thing, you can't turn it.</div> <div> </div> <div>So with that in mind read Larry Fine and Art Reblitz's contentions with a grain of salt since it would be true of any piano with cut thread pins.</div> <div><br clear="all">Good luck with your article,</div> <div>Mike<br>-- <br>Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence. <br>Vince Lombardi<br><br>Michael Magness<br>Magness Piano Service<br>608-786-4404<br><a href="http://www.IFixPianos.com">www.IFixPianos.com</a><br> email <a href="mailto:mike@ifixpianos.com">mike@ifixpianos.com</a> </div>