<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Nature of tuning pins</TITLE> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <STYLE type=text/css>BLOCKQUOTE { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } DL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } UL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } OL { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } LI { PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } </STYLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3354" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Jon~</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks for the excellent info. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>One funny thing someone wrote that I read recently was: when you expect to be able to mike the pins and find different sizes for bass to treble, the Diamond pins, because of their consistency, will not provide you this variety! (ha ha!)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But honestly, who among us wants to have to mike every pin? </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>On the other hand, we shouldn't always just assume that we are getting what we are told. We do need to check up on parts quality, at least from time to time. I do mike samples from the sets of pins I use. If they seem consistent, I don't mike them all. If they seem inconsistent, or if I find in the process of stringing that some seem looser than others, or feel funny, I usually find myself miking a lot more of them before I put them in. The fact that Denros seem to run .002" smaller than specified is also something I have observed. Sometimes it works out fine, other times I wish the pin were what they say it is. Time is money, and we do depend a lot on our parts suppliers to provide uniform, acceptable parts that we don't have to mess around with.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>When you say shop-made 1/4-sawn blocks, does that mean you make them up from scratch? Glue them up and all? That's admirable. (But a lot of work, isn't it? Wouldn't it just be easier to go with a Bolduc block? Or have you found some inconsistencies, like with tuning pins? ;-). You must have some very accurate woodworking machines: planers, table saws, and a nice clamping press. What kind of glue would you use, that wouldn't cause the oxide rings on the tuning pin threads?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I haven't tried making my own pinblocks, or tuning pins yet; although I know it's possible.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>When I had to work on some of the  Weiler pianos from St. Petersburg that were coming in during the 1990s, I discovered a lot of the pins would break on some pianos. The pins did not look very consistent in quality, and I ultimately found out from the rep that they made the tuning pins up themselves at the piano factory from the spools of thick "tuning pin wire", and hand swaged them, etc. Some of the pianos had to have all the pins removed and new Denro or higher quality pins installed, under warranty, because of the tuning pin breakage issue.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>~Kendall Ross Bean</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=009060519-09072008> <DIV align=left> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007>PianoFinders</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><A title=http://www.pianofinders.com href="http://www.pianofinders.com/">www.pianofinders.com</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007>e-mail: <A title=mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com href="mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com">kenbean@pianofinders.com</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><EM>Connecting Pianos and People</EM></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><EM></EM></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><EM><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We conclude<SPAN class=009060519-09072008>d</SPAN> that it works <SPAN class=009060519-09072008>better</SPAN> on paper <SPAN class=009060519-09072008>than it does</SPAN> on wood." </FONT></EM> <DIV><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><SPAN class=606125201-09072008><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><EM>    -</EM> A company that had just built a prototype of a new woodworking tool from the inventor's plans.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Jon Page [mailto:jonpage@comcast.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 09, 2008 2:44 AM<BR><B>To:</B> pianotech@ptg.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Nature of tuning pins<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000>? Hi Kendall<BR>? Our pin of choice are Blued, Diamond brand pins. On occasions we use the Japanese pins.? The difference for us is that the Diamond Blued pins clearly have a cut thread that is not blued over & they are far more consistent in true size.? The Nippon Denro typically run on average .002 smaller than the stated size, which can be a good thing when repinning an original block that doens't need a true sized pin.? They also make a 3 1/2 size pin.? Nifty aye?<BR>? The diamond nickel /chrome plated pins appear to have had the threads cut & then plated?over which I dislike & don't trust this though I ahve used them at one time.<BR>? For my Shop made 1/4 cut maple blocks I've had the best uniform fit from the Diamond made pins.<BR>? For years Trix miked all the pins in a set & put the largest in the bass & smallest in the trebles. Finding something truly round is about as consistent as finding something truly straight.? Just try running a micrometer on a few sets and on differing points on the pin & you'll see. It's a good thing wood is pliable & forgiving.<BR>?? My friends once had a set of the Diamond that was oblong/out of round?but to my knowledge this was the only one we've ever heard of. This anomaly occurred during the time when we mic'd every pin... every set.? ughh.? SO diamonds are? more expensive but not when you consider we don't mic pins very often anymore?& they are as reliable as any we've tried<BR>??<BR><BR>?regards</FONT></DIV><X-SIGSEP><PRE>-- </PRE></X-SIGSEP> <DIV><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Jon Page</DIV></BODY></HTML>