<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3354" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2>Whoops! Sorry! Yes, I meant Andre Oorebeek! Thanks for correcting me! (I guess I need to look more closely at who's writing the message in response to whom. ;-).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2><EM>Andrew Anderson wrote:</EM></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>>Yes... but when they are brand-new out of the box for the first few  <BR>>tunings there is a lot to grump about.  Barely moving a cent or so is  <BR>>for fine tunings and you get there eventually but that is after the  <BR>>foot of that torsionally willing pin finally gets close to where it  <BR>>should be.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2>I agree with you there 100%. No way whatsoever to fine massage those pins when the "feet" of the pins are as tight in the block as nails in 100-year old 2" x 8"'s that have been baking in the attic...</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2>...and when you also have to raise (or lower!) the pitch half a semitone ...forget about moving those pins anything but radically. My comment was for pianos that are already pretty much in tune, and old enough, and stable enough, to have become "tunable" (as far as pin torque).</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>Don't you hate those new pianos with super-tight pins? Not only are the new strings stretching like crazy still, but the pins just don't cooperate at all. Yeah, forget about tuning those in anything less than 2 hours. (Make that 2 1/2, with the pitch raise....)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>I've talked to tuners who were around when Baldwin first starting coming out with those super tight pins in the new dense 41 ply multilam block. Some seriously considered giving up tuning altogether at that point. When I have unstrung those pianos I have often noted a lot of bent pins. I'm not sure if it is from initial driving or from what the tuner subsequently had to do to get the pin to move. (I've also been sorely tempted to put the same size pin back in the block, rather than oversize, when restringing one of those.) In my book, there is absolutely no reason for pins to be that tight.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>By the way, we have found that bent tuning pins will also make it very hard, if not impossible, to achieve stable unisons. It's often very difficult to tell whether a pin has been bent though, without removing it from the block, -so that is a possible cause of stability problems that is often hard to detect.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>If it's an upright/vertical you're tuning, I've heard that impact tuning levers are real good for getting that tip/foot of the tuning pin down in the block to move, without killing your arm with the "jerk" technique.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>Anyone here have experience using an impact tuning lever on super tight pins, and would like to comment? </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=052113606-16072008></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2>~Kendall Ross Bean</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008> <DIV align=left> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007>PianoFinders</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><A title=http://www.pianofinders.com href="http://www.pianofinders.com/">www.pianofinders.com</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007>e-mail: <A title=mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com href="mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com">kenbean@pianofinders.com</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><EM>Connecting Pianos and People</EM></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN>Uh,<BR><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN>I believe that was Andre Oorebeek.<BR><BR>Andrew<BR>><I><BR></I>><I><BR></I><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN>><I> Andrew Anderson also made some excellent points about hardly moving  <BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I> the pin<BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I> at all. I have noticed that does seem to help stability, a lot, for  <BR></I>><I> <SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN>one,<BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I> because you are introducing less twist in the pin and less  <BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I> inequality among<BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I> the string segments. (If you have the technique to do it!) A tuner  <BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I> sent<BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I>along with the Steinway D from a professional piano rental company  <BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I> once<BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I> echoed the same sentiment to me: Move only the pins you need to, and </I>><I> those<BR></I>><SPAN class=052113606-16072008>></SPAN><I> as little as possible.<BR></I></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV align=left> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007>PianoFinders</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><A title=http://www.pianofinders.com href="http://www.pianofinders.com/">www.pianofinders.com</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007>e-mail: <A title=mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com href="mailto:kenbean@pianofinders.com">kenbean@pianofinders.com</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007>phone: (925) 676-3355</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=533361603-16112007><EM>Connecting Pianos and People</EM></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>