<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style>  </style>  </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Fenton and list,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'> Would that original gold colored wire be the same as the phosphor-bronze used in harpsichords?<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Greg Newell<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Greg's Piano Forté<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>www.gregspianoforte.com<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>216-226-3791 (office)<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>216-470-8634 (mobile)<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fenton Murray<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:57 AM<br> <b>To:</b> Pianotech List<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: chickering quarter grand-re-scale trichords<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks Joe,</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Excellent point and yet another that I hadn't considered.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I rebuilt a</span><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif"'> </span><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Schomacker grand that had a gold colored plain wire, original. I have no idea what it was but I did save some. I did re-scale that piano in PScale although I realize now I was unaware of the original tensions.</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Garamond","serif"'>Fenton</span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:defaziomusic@verizon.net" title="defaziomusic@verizon.net">Joe DeFazio</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org" title="pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Monday, July 21, 2008 10:01 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Re: chickering quarter grand-re-scale trichords<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>"Fenton Murray" <<a href="mailto:fmurray@cruzio.com">fmurray@cruzio.com</a>></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Also, recently someone pointed out that changing wire sizes (plain wire) did not change the breaking point % of a note. After a few sample problems in P-Scale I confirmed this. This was really a forehead slapper for me. If this is true, bridge re-scaling is the only option for changing BP %.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Fenton</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </blockquote> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=apple-style-span><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Ron Nossaman <<a href="mailto:rnossaman@cox.net">rnossaman@cox.net</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'><br> <br> </span><span class=apple-style-span><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>   Also, recently someone pointed out that changing wire sizes (plain</span><o:p></o:p></p> <blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>   wire) did not change the breaking point % of a note. After a few<o:p></o:p></span></p> </blockquote> <blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>   sample problems in P-Scale I confirmed this. This was really a<o:p></o:p></span></p> </blockquote> <blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>   forehead slapper for me. If this is true, bridge re-scaling is the<o:p></o:p></span></p> </blockquote> <blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'>   only option for changing BP %.<o:p></o:p></span></p> </blockquote> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:black'><br> <span class=apple-style-span>On plain wires, yup. You can change tension, but to change break%, you gotta change speaking length.</span><br> <br> <span class=apple-style-span>Ron N</span></span><o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Hi Fenton,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I pointed out the "constant BP problem" a week or so ago only after slapping my own forehead repeatedly.  Unfortunately, slapping my forehead repeatedly still left the problem intact and my cognitive abilities less so.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Ron is 99.99% right in his reply.  I don't think it will help you much, if at all, but for logical completeness, I'll add that there is another way to change break% instead of changing the speaking length:  change the wire composition.  Stainless steel wire, or phosphor bronze, or yellow brass, or anything else will have a different modulus of elasticity, density, and the like, and these physical properties will change the break% when a given speaking length is tensioned to the given pitch. Unfortunately, I know of nothing available that will have a lower break% (meaning a stronger wire) than modern steel piano wire.  <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>I'm only mentioning this for two reasons.  One is that, in working through scaling formulae there is usually a constant that relates to the wire composition.  If using a different type of wire, It is this constant that would be changed.  It is pretty common to take constants for granted, and I always remind myself to take a hard look at the "taken for granted" parts of any problem when trying to arrive at creative solutions.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>The other reason is that I'm hoping against all odds that one of the engineers/physicists out there on the list might know about any modern materials that might be investigated for higher strength/lower break%.  If there are any out there that might realistically be tried (carbon nanotubes are about a million times too expensive at the moment), I'd sure like to know about them….  <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Joe DeFazio<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Pittsburgh<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>P. S. - Personally, I'm guessing that breakthroughs in material science will be the next big thing in piano design and rebuilding (though CNC routing and machining is pretty exciting, too, as is 3D printing).<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </blockquote> </div> </body> </html>