The day I quit learning stuff is the day I die. Every meeting I learn something.  Especially from the "old timers".  There is no way anyone can learn it all!  How else are we to continue to better this profession but to listen, HEAR, and record these bits of info our more senior members have to offer. Those that don't are closed minded and are unwilling to learn.. pity.....Can't teach an old dogs new tricks so to speak.  I have several folders to hold info I come across here and in the CAUT list.  They're always good to browse through and remind me of new for old info I either didn't know or remind me of "tricks" to fix certain problems. And, there's always something new!  If there is a thread on a certain topic that I'm not working on at the time, I store it in the correct folder for future reference.  It has, as some have said, "saved my butt"  in many occassions. I hope, Wim, that you can encourage your chapter members to attend meetings.....we have the same problem in Nebraska where we have the same 6-8 people come, but there are 20 or so members.  Distance is a factor, but, still, I used to commute 2 hours to our Seattle meetings, including a ferry boat to attend getting home at 1am,(or later..the last boat left at 1am) so I have no sympathy for those who say, "it's too far"..... Shame on you.  I have a family and "life"  too...It's only once a month for God's sake.... If you want to be better at what you do, then you darn well better attend the meetings, seminars, conventions, etc. to approach betterment.  As it has been said, since you can't acheive perfection, you should aim for that and will approach excellence. Best, Paul T. Williams RPT Piano Technician School of Music 5 Westbrook Bldg. University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0100 pwilliams4@unl.edu <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=40%>"Michael Magness" <IFixPianos@yahoo.com> Sent by: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org 07/23/2008 02:41 PM <table border> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=59%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>To</div> <td>"Pianotech List" <pianotech@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: somewhat OT- Acquiring Education -- was Re: who pays?</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Willem Blees <<a href=mailto:wimblees@aol.com>wimblees@aol.com</a>> wrote: Ron The Hawaii chapter has been meeting every other month since I got here last year, (The first time ever that it has ben meeting on a regular basis), but there are only 6 of us who attend meetings. I talked with one non-member the other day, and he basically stated that at his stage of development, (about the same as yours and mine), he really doesn't need to come to meetings to learn. I have been thinking of putting together a newsletter to send out to all the tuners on the island, (about 20 of them), to encourage them to come to meetings. I want to ask permission to use what you just said. Maybe it will encourage some of them to realize the importance of learning. On a similar note, just before he died at the age of 86, I asked my dad if he had any regrets. His answer was. "I've got so much more to learn". Wim -----Original Message----- From: Ron Nossaman <<a href=mailto:rnossaman@cox.net target=_blank>rnossaman@cox.net</a>> To: Pianotech List <<a href=mailto:pianotech@ptg.org target=_blank>pianotech@ptg.org</a>> Sent: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 7:00 am Subject: Re: somewhat OT- Acquiring Education -- was Re: who pays? > I guess that's the difference when you really LEARN something. You > never forget it. > > JF That's why I don't understand the people who don't read the list unless they want a specific answer, and don't seem concerned as to why things work like they do. There has been a bunch of times something I read here saved my butt years after I read it, when I had no earthly use for it at the time. People mostly seem to want isolated lick and stick factoids, specific to the crisis du jour and expiring on application, rather than long term integrated systems of basic principles applicable to almost anything. Handing them a "what" may solve their current problem, but if they care enough to bother to work out the "why", they can avert a thousand future problems and get into trouble at much higher and more interesting levels than before. "What you have been obliged to discover by yourself leaves a path in your mind which you can use again when the need arises" --- G. C. Lichtenberg --- "It is little short of a miracle that modern methods of instruction have not already completely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry" --- Albert Einstein --- Off to turn over a few rocks, Ron N <hr>The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. <a href="http://toolbar.aol.com/tmz/download.html?NCID=aolcmp00050000000014" target=_blank>Get the TMZ Toolbar Now</a>! Hi Wim,   I have a story and a couple of observations that you can add to your arsenal. I am fast approaching my 40th year in this profession my ex-stepfather, also a tech has been at it for 66 years. I had occasion to call him not long ago about a job I was going to be doing and any insights he could offer. During the conversation we discussed my having more to learn and he assured me that he still was learning and looking forward to learning more, the man turned 86 in May.   My story is a personal one. About a dozen or so years ago at our pre-meeting lunch we were discussing, of all things, pianos!<g> A young man across the table from related that on his final tuning the previous day a key had cracked, at the balance rail window, just as he was about to finish his tuning. I said "so you had to glue, put veneer on it and clamp it and make an appointment to return"? He said "no, I asked if they had any strapping tape, glued it, taped it back together, put it back in the piano and used it to finish tuning that note". I had not been aware until then of the use or value of strapping or UPS clear box tape as a clamp. I have used this invaluable tool numerous times since, in fact I carry a small roll with me in case it isn't available in the home/school/church.   My point is had I not gone to the meeting and had lunch with him I probably wouldn't be aware of it today!   Of course, this is only one of many things that I have picked up at meetings, lunches etc. over the years. Similar to Ron I read many of the posts on the list acquiring new techniques and knowledge about things that I find myself using months or years later.   Mike - I feel sorry for the person who can't get genuinely excited about his work. Not only will he never be satisfied, but he will never achieve anything worthwhile. Walter Chrysler Michael Magness Magness Piano Service 608-786-4404 <a href=http://www.ifixpianos.com/>www.IFixPianos.com</a> email <a href=mailto:mike@ifixpianos.com>mike@ifixpianos.com</a>