<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <STYLE>.hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } BODY.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } </STYLE> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16674" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY class=hmmessage bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Michael,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I like it. I can see my problem now, I was trying to be as exact as possible, sometimes ending up with things almost perfect, but not quite, and sometimes needing a 32nd of veneer. Your method accepts the inevitable, it's easier to deal with a 4mm piece than a 1mm. Try pounding a piece of veneer in with a mallet, duh!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>My method for dowelling is probably as much to say I installed blind dowels as any structural gain. Pins are installed at the dowel locations in the block and snipped off at 1/8" or so, during a mock up the block is struck leaving center marks in the stretcher, pins are removed from block, block and stretcher drilled 1/16 oversized for the dowelling, holes are flooded with glue, my glue up is essentially the same as yours with the plate installed with the glue wet, there is then plenty of up and down play to allow the plate to pull the block home. Credit given to Christian Bolduc for this method, obviously Bolduc Acoustical Glue must be used for this operation.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I have also done glue ups without the plate being installed by placing a pinblock jack under the new block during a mock up. With the jack set so as to just touch the bottom of the block in the middle of the keybed, I now have a height reference for the glue up of the new block, dig? Scribe marks and all kinds of other notes, references and OCD stuff can also make an accurate job with out the plate.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>thanks for your help.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Fenton</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=m_spreeman@hotmail.com href="mailto:m_spreeman@hotmail.com">Michael Spreeman</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 03, 2008 4:44 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Doweled and Fully Fit Pinblocks</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Hi Fenton, <BR> <BR>When doing full fit blocks, we would fit the block so the fatter treble end would butt up against the outer rim perfectly. (This being after the block has been located, height has been established, height/angle shims fit if necessary, stretcher rail/block joint fit, dry clamped in and 3 screw holes in the treble and 1 in the bass drilled through the block and into the inner rim). The bass end would be cut so that it was approximately 4mm from the rim. A piece of the pinblock scrap that was cut-off during the initial rough fit would then be dry fit into the gap. (When laying out the new block, one can plan ahead to allow a little extra material on the bass end and the end cut off piece will mate almost perfect when fit as the shim.) When dry fitting the assembly, make sure the shim isn't too tight in order to allow for slight expansion when the glue is applied (providing you're not using epoxy or other non-water based glue).<BR> <BR>The block is removed and the pilot screw holes are opened up for the screw body and countersunk.  <BR> <BR>At glue up time, we would lay out the clamps and have the plate suspended above the case. All glue surfaces are coated, including the bass shim on both sides,  and the block is set into the case and  pulled toward the treble side. The screws are installed and the bass shim is pounded in with a larger wooden block and mallet.<BR> <BR>Drop the plate in and put random screws to pull the block up tight. Clamp the stretcher to the block and clean things up. Let the glue set and pull the plate. Finish by installing half inch dowels through the block into the rim in between the screws (this will insure your ring of fire <IMG src="http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/pr01/ltr/../emoticons/smile_wink.gif">). Sand the bass end shim and the job will look (better than) factory fresh.<BR><BR><BR><BR> <DIV><EM><FONT face="" color=#330033><FONT face="Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" color=#330000>                Michael Spreeman </FONT><BR></FONT></EM><FONT face="" color=#000066><A href="http://www.spreemanpianoinnovations.com/">http://www.spreemanpianoinnovations.com</A></FONT></DIV><BR><BR> <HR id=EC_stopSpelling> From: fmurray@cruzio.com<BR>To: pianotech@ptg.org<BR>Subject: Re: Doweled and Fully Fit Pinblocks<BR>Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 14:34:14 -0700<BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator> <STYLE> .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} </STYLE> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>List,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Of all the contact and glue surfaces of the full fit block certainly the ones with the least structural significance must be the end grain glue joint at the rim. In many woodworking aplications this is left to float, but not in the wooden fortress circle of sound. I enjoy attempting to fit all of these joints as well as I can if for no other reason than to be able to look under the plate and see something that looks like it did 100 years ago. But this end joint is about the hardest to nail, even when attained it's impossible to get into the piano. So, I inevetably slip in the veneer at the end which always seems difficult and messy to do and never looks quite right. I do under cut the ends slightly.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I would love to read procedures for nailing this left, right, tight at both ends fit. It is, after all one that can be seen by every one.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Fenton</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> Get more from your digital life. <A href="http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home2_082008" target=_new>Find out how.</A> </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>