<html> <head> <style> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } </style> </head> <body class='hmmessage'>John, Waste pins? Unconscionable! In China, rumor has it that they save the end trimmings and glue them together to make more pins. (just kidding) G --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: jonpage@comcast.net To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:07:34 -0400 Subject: Center Pin <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML"><style> .ExternalClass blockquote, .ExternalClass dl, .ExternalClass ul, .ExternalClass ol, .ExternalClass li {padding-top:0;padding-bottom:0;} </style><title>Center Pin</title> <div>>Didn't know others wasted pins like I do</div> <div> </div> <div>How do you waste pins? I use the same one for the set, when done</div> <div>I place it back in the envelope or pin holder..</div> <pre>-- </pre> <div> Regards, Jon Page</div> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: jonpage@comcast.net To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:17:22 -0400 Subject: Center Pin <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML"><style> .ExternalClass blockquote, .ExternalClass dl, .ExternalClass ul, .ExternalClass ol, .ExternalClass li {padding-top:0;padding-bottom:0;} </style><title>Center Pin</title> <blockquote>>Didn't know others wasted pins like I do</blockquote> <blockquote>How do you waste pins? I use the same one for the set, when done</blockquote> <blockquote>I place it back in the envelope or pin holder.</blockquote> <div> </div> <div>The same chase pin, that is.</div> <pre>-- </pre> <div> Regards, Jon Page</div> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: BobDavis88@aol.com To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 00:42:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Center Pin <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML"> <div>In a message dated 8/14/2008 6:01:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Tom Driscoll (<a href="mailto:tomtuner@verizon.net">tomtuner@verizon.net</a>) writes:</div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">....Once I find the center of the hole I use the popular inserter-extracter tool to push the pin into the birdseye then take care to keep the other bushing in line with the pin as I SLOWLY push the pin through...</blockquote> <div>I find that it helps to "nibble" the pin through. By this I mean push-release-push-release instead of pushing through in one smooth motion. When pushing through in one motion, the pin can get a little off course if the tool isn't PERFECTLY lined up and the pin PERFECTLY centered on the face of the pusher. It can enlarge some part of the bushing. Pushing in tiny increments resets the pin on the face of the pusher and pushes it straighter.</div> <div> </div> <div>Bob Davis</div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">. </blockquote> <div><font style="color: black; font-family: ARIAL,SAN-SERIF; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><hr style="">Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? <a title="http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007" href="http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007" target="_blank">Read reviews on AOL Autos</a>.</div> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: toddpianoworks@att.net To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:27:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Center Pin Would a pin vise work as well? BobDavis88@aol.com wrote:<blockquote class="EC_replbq" style="margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div>In a message dated 8/14/2008 6:01:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Tom Driscoll (<a href="mailto:tomtuner@verizon.net">tomtuner@verizon.net</a>) writes:</div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">....Once I find the center of the hole I use the popular inserter-extracter tool to push the pin into the birdseye then take care to keep the other bushing in line with the pin as I SLOWLY push the pin through...</blockquote> <div>I find that it helps to "nibble" the pin through. By this I mean push-release-push-release instead of pushing through in one smooth motion. When pushing through in one motion, the pin can get a little off course if the tool isn't PERFECTLY lined up and the pin PERFECTLY centered on the face of the pusher. It can enlarge some part of the bushing. Pushing in tiny increments resets the pin on the face of the pusher and pushes it straighter.</div> <div> </div> <div>Bob Davis</div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">. </blockquote> <div><hr style="">Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? <a title="http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007" href="http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007" target="_blank">Read reviews on AOL Autos</a>.</div></blockquote> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: tomtuner@verizon.net To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 02:57:39 -0400 Subject: RE: Center Pin <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML"> <style> .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass a:link, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited, .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle18 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;} .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {page:Section1;} </style> <div class="EC_Section1">     Would a pin vise work as well?             Matthew,             No. You have to place the pin in the vice, tighten, and then push the pin into the bushing and bird’s eye with no support on the back side. Then if you didn’t break the unsupported flange the vice would have to be removed in order to push the pin (that the vice may have nicked) the rest of the way in. I was in the shop tonight and had to repin a few centers and Bob’s post below is exactly my technique. Finding the center of the bird’s eye is not difficult and with Bob’s described technique you should have no problem in centering the pin through the second bushing.             My suggestion is to get hold of some old parts or a complete action from a junker and repin away for an hour or so. At piano tuning school we used to sit around after hours and tie knots or remove broken shanks or repin action centers on old junk actions for practice. Everyone develops their own way of doing these types of tasks and practice will develop a method that works for you and the muscle memory will come along for the ride.   Best, Tom Driscoll P.S.  Do you have the Maninno reamers?             BobDavis88@aol.com wrote: <div> In a message dated 8/14/2008 6:01:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Tom Driscoll (<a href="mailto:tomtuner@verizon.net">tomtuner@verizon.net</a>) writes: </div> <blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> ....Once I find the center of the hole I use the popular inserter-extracter tool to push the pin into the birdseye then take care to keep the other bushing in line with the pin as I SLOWLY push the pin through... </blockquote> <div> I find that it helps to "nibble" the pin through. By this I mean push-release-push-release instead of pushing through in one smooth motion. When pushing through in one motion, the pin can get a little off course if the tool isn't PERFECTLY lined up and the pin PERFECTLY centered on the face of the pusher. It can enlarge some part of the bushing. Pushing in tiny increments resets the pin on the face of the pusher and pushes it straighter. </div> <div>   </div> <div> Bob Davis </div> <blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> . </blockquote> </div> No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.3/1611 - Release Date: 8/14/2008 6:20 AM --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: karlkaputt@hotmail.com To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:03:46 +0200 Subject: RE: Essex Uprights <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML"> <style> .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} </style> Ric, I just had a look on your homepage. You don´t seem to be a dealer. Are you planing to become a dealer? If so, I highly recommend to check out the Wendl & Lung pianos, they are really worth getting involved in. Gregor P.S: it´s funny to read Norwegian. It´s almost understandable for Germans. Isn´t Bergen the city with the most raining days in Europe? :-) > Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 10:49:41 +0100 > From: ricb@pianostemmer.no > To: pianotech@ptg.org > Subject: Essex Uprights > > Hi Paul, Gregor. > > Thanks for your thoughts, I'm a bit surprised this didn't prompt more > replies myself really given the fact we are talking about "They that > Shall not be Named". Seriously tho, the little feedback I have (and this > really applies to Boston as well) is that they are too expensive for > what they are competing for. As in quite a bit to much expensive. I cant > get a-hold of a dealers price list so I have no way at the moment of > assessing how much it costs a dealer to buy in, transport and service > any of these. But I get the feeling that they are also rather high > priced from the factory to dealership. > > I've been to Oberlin a couple years back and didnt think to ask whether > they had any. Given the fact that Essex is a low level entry piano, I'd > be surprised if they had any. > > Still... I'd like to get more basic feedback as to performance / costs. > Are they worth getting involved in. I've seen one Essex upright so far > up here in the far north. A 123 I think it is. And I've seen a few > Boston uprights and grands. I kind of like the Boston G178 and G 215 > for the money. But the Boston pianos seem here in Norway a bit steep. > > Cheers > RicB > > > Contact any of the "All Steinway Schools" like Oberlin. I think > they have some. I haven't heard any great reviews of them, however.... > > Paul > > <hr>Discover the new Windows Vista <a href="http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE" target="_blank">Learn more!</a> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: karlkaputt@hotmail.com To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:33:06 +0200 Subject: RE: Center Pin <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML"> <style> .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} </style> The hair has not to be very greasy, so it´s okay to take a shower in the morning :-)  The nose grease trick is not for pinning, only for "lubricating" the leather of the hammer butt where the jack rests on. Shawn, does it exist, a list of tips tools and techniques? If so, I could contribute these 2 dirty tricks from good old Germany: 1. to remove a spot (e.g. of shoe polish on the lower side) from a piano surface: apply cigarette ash on a wet cloth and rub the spot away. 2. If a fallboard is warped and does not close properly: take a towel and put it between fallboard and cabinet. Close fallboard slowly and carefully with preasure. But be warned: it lasts only until you close the door of the customers house. Perhaps it works longer if you leave the towel over night. Concerning pining: I never use a tool to get a new pin in, only to get the old pin out. I have a more direct feeling for the pin and the birds eye with my fingers. Gregor P.S. you should not think that all German techs have long greasy hair and greasy noses and are chain smokers who deliver a service that lasts only so long until the customer has paid the bill. <hr>From: shawnbrock@fuse.net To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: Re: Center Pin Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:24:24 -0400 <div>I'll try that one someday.  I have to admit I would have never thought of it!  Maybe this could one of the tips in tips tools and techniques?  Would make for an interesting read don't you think?</div> <div> </div> <div>Shawn Brock, RPT</div> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;">From: <a title="piano57@comcast.net" href="mailto:piano57@comcast.net">piano57@comcast.net</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;">To: <a title="pianotech@ptg.org" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;">Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:59 PM</div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;">Subject: Re: Center Pin</div> <div> </div> <div>Shawn,</div> <div> </div> <div>There have been discussions on this list that included recommendations of wiping the center pin through greasy hair or on the side of one's nose to provide good lubrication.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Barbara Richmond, RPT</div> <div>near Peoria, IL</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>-------------- Original message -------------- From: "Shawn Brock" <<a href="mailto:shawnbrock@fuse.net">shawnbrock@fuse.net</a>> </div> <style> </style> <blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"> <div>Its a debatable subject I reckon.  When I first started that's how I performed the task.  Just starting the pin with my fingers, and pushing it through with the center pinning tool.  At some point someone harped about how the oil from your skin could get on the pin and possibly cause malfunction in the future.  This fellow always pinned with a small set of vise-grips.  He would cut off both ends of the pin (the pointed side and the side that was bird by the tool).  I did things that way for a while, but now I'm back to the good old starting the pin with your fingers.  Maybe it will cause undesired things to happen in the future, but it has not seemed to make a difference yet for me.  I knocked out a few bushings when I tried using the vise-grips thing, that's another reason I switched back to my old way.</div> <div> </div> <div>Shawn Brock, RPT</div> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> </blockquote></blockquote></blockquote> <hr>Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! <a href="http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us" target="_blank">Try it!</a> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: jonpage@comcast.net To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:15:07 -0400 Subject: Center Pin <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=unicode"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft SafeHTML"><style> .ExternalClass blockquote, .ExternalClass dl, .ExternalClass ul, .ExternalClass ol, .ExternalClass li {padding-top:0;padding-bottom:0;} </style><title>Center Pin</title> <div>>Would a pin vise work as well? </div> <div>A waste of time.</div> <div> </div> <div>Pianotek, pg. D-15, CPT-1.</div> <div>The best, most expedient tool for extraction and insertion.</div> <div> </div> <div>Straight reamers and burnishers compliment the procedure.</div> <pre>-- </pre> <div> Regards, Jon Page</div> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: A440A@aol.com To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 07:22:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Center Pin <pre>Jon writes: << Pianotek, pg. D-15, CPT-1. The best, most expedient tool for extraction and insertion. Straight reamers and burnishers compliment the procedure. >> Does anybody here use the small brass-lined pliers that Brookstone used to sell? They sure make it easy to repin without damaging anything and without picking up extra tools, etc. I use them, the extractor, clippers and reamers. Takes about an hour to repin a hammerline. Regards, Ed Foote RPT <a href="http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html</a> www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html ************** Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (<a href="http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007" target="_blank">http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007</a> )</HTML> </pre> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu To: pianotech@ptg.org Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 08:16:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Center Pin If you're worried about contamination, just wear some cotton gloves. I just use my fingers and you'll get a feel for where the bird's eye is.  Just takes a few times to get the hang of it Paul <table width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td width="40%">"William Monroe" <pianotech@a440piano.net> Sent by: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org 08/14/2008 07:44 PM <table border="1"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td bgcolor="white"> <div align="center">Please respond to Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></div></td></tr></tbody></table> </td><td width="59%"> <table width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td> <div align="right">To</div> </td><td>"Pianotech List" <pianotech@ptg.org> </td></tr><tr valign="top"> <td> <div align="right">cc</div> </td><td> </td></tr><tr valign="top"> <td> <div align="right">Subject</div> </td><td>Re: Center Pin</td></tr></tbody></table> <table> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td> </td><td></td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> OK, reasonable enough assumption, I suppose.  Hadn't considered the contamination issue.  With that in mind I'd probably try just needle nose pliers first.  I'd think the endless locking and unlocking of the vise-grips would become tiresome.   William R. Monroe SNIP   At some point someone harped about how the oil from your skin could get on the pin and possibly cause malfunction in the future.  This fellow always pinned with a small set of vise-grips.   SNIP Shawn Brock, RPT What is the best way to hold a center pin while you get it started to push it through the hole?   Matthew </body> </html>