<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> <title></title> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Ben, The problem is that you can't tune an untuned piano. 10 - 15 cents needs a pitch adjustment. You have to first "tune it", quickly get it into the ballpark, then only with it being very close to in tune can you expect to get a stable tuning with whatever method you choose. Follow up with a second pass. Use the temperament strip for setting the temperament, clean up the unisons, then proceed toward the extremities using single muting. Tom Cole Ben Gac wrote: <blockquote cite="mid116083.85189.qm@web1106.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com" type="cite">Hi everyone, I would to get your feedback on what you all this is the most stable and efficient way to tune.  I've been trying many, many different ways over the past couple of months and asking other technicians that I come across why they tune the way that they do.  I've been searching for the optimal way that an aural tuner can tune fast and stably.  I've gathered that many technicians feel that tuning each string in the piano as you go is the most stable way to tune a piano, leaving out the strip mute altogether.  ETD users can particularly be the most efficient with this method of tuning, but I've come across some problems with it as an aural tuner: - First of all, if the piano is any more than about 10-15 cents out of tune or if the unisons sound twangy, it's all but impossible to use test notes, or at least three times as hard (three strings to adjust).  - Second, one must be EXACTLY correct when one tunes a note (hard for the tweakers who like to go back and adjust), with either little room for error, or else time gets consumed very fast going back over what one has already tuned. - I've also found that if I use this method that my unisons go out of tune as I continue to tune the piano as the tension gets displaced across the soundboard and plate, and I have to go back and re-tune them.  It's more frustrating than with a mute, because three strings must be adjusted. The main reason it seems that this is some technicians' preferred method is because tuning each string as one tunes up the piano is the most stable because it adds tension to the piano immediately, unlike a strip mute, which ends up adding tension later and can leave the octaves less stretched... Strip muting, however, does have its advantages: - It's very easy to use when setting one's temperament, and one can use test notes as easily as ever with only one adjustment to make if a note is too far gone to hear a proper beat rate.  - Mistakes, when heard, can be adjusted quickly and effectively across the entire keyboard (if all my Es are off, it's not too hard to fix them if they're strip muted) But strip muting also has its disadvantages - Not as much tension is added to piano as early on, and in many cases can wreak havoc on a perfectly single string tuned keyboard - Unisons can go out of tune just as quickly and need adjustment, especially once the whole piano has been "tuned" - It could be argued that the strip deflects strings slightly and that the pitch will change when the strip is removed. I've seen some aural technicians use various kinds of  "hybrid" methods, including using a strip only for the temperament, and also tuning two out of three strings in the unisons and leaving every other crease in the strip in place until tuning everything out later (as I believe Virgil Smith first pointed out: two strings vibrating in sync actually resonate lower than one string resonating alone). Currently I've been been trying to use a method that incorporates the best of both worlds:  I strip mute the whole piano.  I tune my temperament, then work my way down to bottom of the bass.  I tune out the unisons because it seems to me (whether it's true or not) that the bass section would be the least affected by future changes in tension on the piano, due to it being cross strung as well as the thicker bass strings.  Then I tune the unisons out up through my temperament.  I tune single strings (the temperament strip is already in place) for an octave using all my checks, then tune out those unisons.  I repeat that procedure all the way to the top of the piano, then check my unisons across the piano and fix the offenders.  Last, I do a few consecutive thirds checks to make sure that everything expands equally across the keyboard.  If the piano is in good condition, I can usually this in under an hour.  My questions for you all: - What are your reactions to what I've written (am I off my rocker, or what?) - How do YOU tune, and why? - Can some of you scaling and rebuilding gurus tell me in a little detail which sections of the piano are most prone to tension change, and why? - What do you think is the most efficient and stable way an aural tuner can tune a piano (ie, give his/her clients the best service for an optimal amount of time)? - And lastly--How much does this all really matter? If the piano is already far enough out of tune that any of the aforementioned disadvantages actually make a difference, is it really going to be noticeable when one tunes with a strip versus just one or two wedge mutes?  And if we REALLY want a finished product, shouldn't we just make two passes?  Thanks for bearing with my long email and questions... -Ben </blockquote> </body> </html>