<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3395" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Ben - Can I assume your are a beginner at piano tuning? Have you taken any sort of course? What avenue have you taken for training? I don't mean to be condescending with my comments here, but this is as fundamental to piano tuning as anything gets. If you have not studied from some authoritative source, I highly recommend pursuit of such.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>That being said, yes, you are correct - a piano must be at or within a couple cents of standard pitch to tune it - especially aurally. Any time you make significant tension changes to a string, you affect the pitch of nearby strings. The more accurate that you want the tuning, the closer to pitch everything needs to be at the start.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"...aren't quite 'pitch raise material....." <FONT face=Arial>Just completely exorcise that phrase from your head! Pitch has nothing at all to do with the quality or age or condition of a piano - period. A beat up 1951 Betsy Ross spinet has just as much need to be tuned to standard pitch as the new Fazioli grand in the bay window overlooking the lake - in fact it may be even more important because the kids may actually be permitted to PLAY the Betsy Ross.  99+% of pianos that I come to that are flat, I raise up to standard pitch with a separate pitch raise pass and I charge for it. The only time I don't is if it is someone (little old lady?) who isn't taking lessons, doesn't play with other instruments, isn't doing choir practice, etc., etc. AND has expressed a desire to "tune" the piano as economically as is possible.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>My standard tuning fee is $95 - a good one-pass tuning takes me about 75 to 90 minutes. I charge $45 per pitch raise pass - one pass takes me 40 minutes or so. Pianos that are somewhere in the 60 to 80 cents flat range or more will require more than one pitch raise pass.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Paul brought up a great point - float the pitch whenever possible.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hope this helps.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">Some people feel that some circumstances warrant floating pitch. IMO, if it's a casual environment (as most all of mine are) and the piano is 12c or 20c flat, I'll split the difference. Same if it's 8c or 10c flat, and the temp and humidity are on their way up (i.e. springtime). Dead of summer tho', it gets tuned to A-440, unless it's sharp when I get there. In that case I'll split the difference again.<BR><BR>I always tell the customer my intentions and make certain they're OK with it. I usually get the glazed look and "OK, you're the expert." <BR><BR>Paul Bruesch<BR>Stillwater, MN<BR><BR></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr> <DIV class=gmail_quote>On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 10:12 PM, Ben Gac <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:ben@benspianotuning.com">ben@benspianotuning.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Thanks for your input!  I wasn't intentionally trying to use the exact amount of 10-15 cents to make my point (as an aural tuner, I guess I should have specified a beat rate, but you get the picture).  So it seems to me--unless the piano is AT PITCH, if one really would like to do a stable tuning, he/she should always make two passes?  That would add about a half hour to a normal tuning time, wouldn't it?  Do you "two-passers" fit that into your normal tuning fee?  <BR><BR>I'd like to think that I have a pretty good set of ears on me, and while it's quite simple to only listen to one string at a time I certainly can fully appreciate the sound of a tuned unison used as a test note.  <BR><BR>What advice do you have for someone who has a slew of clients with pianos that aren't quite "pitch raise material", but certainly off the mark from "at pitch"?  Can it be done in one pass, or should I begin booking a little more time for my appointments, and charging accordingly?  </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>