<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:st1 = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1555" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Richard,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There is also one other way this could have happened that I have come across.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If there is any space under the bracket where it goes on the bolt, when the soft </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>or sustain pedals are used it will gradually lift the action up and result in huge</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>lost motion. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have only seen this once on a Yamaha and I think part of the problem was </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>that there was only two action brackets that held the action in place.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Joe Goss RPT<BR>Mother Goose Tools<BR><A href="mailto:imatunr@srvinet.com">imatunr@srvinet.com</A><BR><A href="http://www.mothergoosetools.com">www.mothergoosetools.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=richard.ucci@att.net href="mailto:richard.ucci@att.net">richard.ucci@att.net</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pianotech@ptg.org href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 01, 2008 8:25 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: spring loops</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>I'm going with the theory that the action was put back wrongly by the previous tech, some years ago, and now I had to put the thing right again. By the way, this is a school piano that was rode hard and put away wet.  The spring loops are just the tip of the iceberg of what this thing needs.</DIV> <DIV>RU/UP</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message from "tom" <tomtuner@verizon.net>: -------------- <BR><BR> <META content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)" name=Generator> <STYLE>v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } </STYLE> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"></o:SmartTagType> <STYLE> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <STYLE>  </STYLE> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Rick.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">            If you felt the “click “ and all the hammers are on the same line my theory on this problem may be off base. .Also, I only suggested removing one assembly to check that the flange is tightened in the correct position..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Still the question remains---What caused such a drastic change in geometry?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">            Tom Driscoll<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>richard.ucci@att.net<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, September 01, 2008 9:30 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Pianotech List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: spring loops</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Tom, you could be right, it is very difficult to check the pin when the butt in inserted. It felt like it popped into position, and all the hammers lined up at the same height. The idea was not to have to remove all the flanges during the loop repair process.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">RU/UP<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-------------- Original message from "tom" <tomtuner@verizon.net>: -------------- <BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Rick,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is puzzling. If the action is placed back in the piano in the same position as when it was removed the jack top to butt relationship should be unchanged. The main action rail and action mounting studs are untouched in the process.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think you may have installed the hammer-butt assembly onto the flange and not matched the slot in butt with the center pin.  Essentially this will lower each hammer assembly pushing the shank off the rail and causing the hammer to block. Pull out one butt and flange, observe the slot and assemble correctly out of the piano. When I tighten the butt plate I move the butt until the center pin “snaps“ into the slot then tighten the plate. If I am correct when you put the assembly back in , there will be excessive lost motion and letoff on that note.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I can’t think of any other reason for such a drastic change in the key-action relationship.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This may be a good example of when to step back and figure out what has happened before readjusting everything.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’ll be interested in what you find,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tom D.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>richard.ucci@att.net<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, August 31, 2008 11:08 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> pianotech<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> spring loops</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">List,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Just completed  Yamaha spring loop replacement. Followed Tom D's method. Went well , and after filing hammers, cleaning slots , cutting cord, and glueing new cords, it took about 6hrs.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">When I installed the action back in the piano(p-22) , all of the hammers were way up off the rail and blocking when played. The solution I took was to lower capstans and lower let-off button and reset backcheck distance.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">My question is: What caused the capstans to change their relationship to the whippens so drasticaly ?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Rick Ucci/Ucci Piano<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG.<BR>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG.<BR>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1643 - Release Date: 8/30/2008 5:18 PM</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> <P><FONT size=2>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG.<BR>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1645 - Release Date: 9/1/2008 7:19 AM<BR></FONT></P><BR> <P><FONT size=2>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG.<BR>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.14/1645 - Release Date: 9/1/2008 7:19 AM<BR></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>