<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3395" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>"Yes, in time the rust will cause the strings to break. it might take another year, or maybe even longer, but eventually the rust will eat through the strings, and they will break."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>I'm not sure that is true. My understanding is that once a coating of surface rust forms on steel/iron, the rust actually helps to insulate the metal from moisture and leaving rust in place will actually slow down the rate of corrosion. Pluse if the room was dried out quickly (I presume some few days or so), why would the strings corrode any more quickly than they were before the flood? If anything, whatever the string's rate of corrosion was, it would slow down now because of the little bit of rust having formed on the surface as a result of the flood. I sure don't see any reason to expect that strings will start breaking in the couple years because of anything to do with the flood.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>However, of course, the layer of rust related to the flood may well be objectionable and a valid subject for argument in an insurance claim. Another thing to consider is that the piano is over 100 years old. How corrosion-free were the strings prior to the flood?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>"After one heating season, the pin block might still feel OK. But in a couple of years, the pin block will dry out, and start to fail."</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>If the pinblock was absorbed a large amount of water, I think it likely that it would have fallen apart already (old pinblocks were glued together with hide glue) - or at least some or many pins would have an unusual feel to them. However, your point is generally valid in that it is very difficult to know the exact amount of damage that may have occurred to the pinblock without tearing the piano apart - maybe the pins are the only thing holding it together (although I really do find that unlikely if they all feel good).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>The glue joints in the pinblock certainly could be damaged. However, a year is enough time for the block to "dry out". Whatever damage might have been done has likely been done. If the block is significantly damaged and the pins are holding it together, the apparent condition of the block may well continue to deteriorate, but it will be from damage already complete - likely not because of the block continuing to dry out for years.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Then we need to pose the same question again - how good was the block in this 100+ year old piano prior to the flood?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>And what kind of S&S grand has plate bushings in it? Was this piano previously "rebuilt"?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Gotta agree with you on the wippens - if a few have come apart - more will likely continue - potentially similar to the pinblock, the damage has been done and glue joints have degraded - however, unlike the pinblock, the wippens get hammered around a zillion times each time the piano is played, thus putting fluctuating stresses on the impaired wippen glue joints - very likely that they will continue to fail.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Does a handful of wippens coming apart warrant a new action?  (My customer doesn't notice anything wrong in the action so she's a bit resistant to having work done)."</FONT> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>From a technical perspective, yes. From an insurance perspective, that's likely an issue for negotiation/argument.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"I also have questions about glue joints coming loose in the keywell area that seem OK now."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>And for good reason. Your questions will be answered in the coming years/decades......<FONT size=3></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"Does the piano loose value because it now has a history of having been through a flood?"</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Certainly if a prospective purchaser is aware of the flood history - yes, the piano will loose value - much like a used car that was parked on Bourbon Street when Katrina blew though. If the information is not known to the customer and is not apparent, then perhaps not. If you are assigning a value to the piano for insurance purposes, then indeed the flood history would devalue the instrument.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bottom line here is that when you open the lid on that piano, you are opening a can of worms - simply very difficult to tell what may have been damaged. If you write anything up regarding this piano put about eight disclaimers in every sentence to cover your posterior!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hope some of this helps.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial>Terry Farrell</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV>First of all, since this damage was a year ago, did your customer keep the case open with the insurance company? Any damage to the piano as a result of the water damage is covered under home owners insurance. But if the customer signed off on it, she's on her own.<BR><BR>Concerning the  rust on the pins and coils. Yes, in time the rust will cause the strings to break. it might take another year, or maybe even longer, but eventually the rust will eat through the strings, and they will break.  <BR><BR>Concerning the pin block. After one heating season, the pin block might still feel OK. But in a couple of years, the pin block will dry out, and start to fail. <BR><BR>Concerning the wippens. With that many having been exposed to the water, I'm surprised only a few came appart. Again, in a couple of years, the rest will probably go bad, too.<BR><BR>All in all, unless the customer signed off on it, the insurance should pay to have a new pin block and string, and new action parts put in the piano. The piano was not in the same condition after the flood as it was before the flood. The purpose of insurance is to help get property back in it's original condition. Since the piano can't be put back in the condition it was in, the insurance should pay to have the piano rebuilt. <BR><BR>Willem Blees, RPT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR> <DIV id=AOLMsgPart_2_97e51beb-00d7-4298-a562-b774986dafa1> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have a client who's 1905 Steinway B was in a flood in which water leaked from the toilet upstairs overnight and flooded the piano, carpet, etc.  The main areas of water exposure were the webbing and keywell.  The surrounding carpet,ect. was also soaked.  The room was dried out pretty quickly, using a commercial flood cleanup service.  I have waited the recommended one year time since the flood.  The strings still sound good - the lid was down.  There is water staining on the plate and rust on the coils.  There are plate bushings and they are water stained.  The pinblock still feels tight.  I am concerned that since the webbing area was exposed to water, should the pinblock be checked for water damage (by destringing, taking the plate out and looking.)  Also do I need to worry about rust in the plate. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>During the flood several wippens became unglued under the rest rail cushion.  I glued them back together.  The piano got soaked in the key well to the point where about 2/3 of the balance rail puchings got soaked.  There is a hairline crack in the keywell about 10" long.  Does a handful of wippens coming apart warrant a new action?  (My customer doesn't notice anything wrong in the action so she's a bit resistant to having work done)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I also have questions about glue joints coming loose in the keywell area that seem OK now.  Does the piano loose value because it now has a history of having been through a flood?  </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks in advance for any ideas, input.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sue Brown</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>