<div> Valid point, Wim.  It does get people in the door of our business.  <br> <br> <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm surprised, though, at how few people actually use the player system, and how few people that own pianos with these systems actually get their pianos serviced.  If you have the full orchestra, it sounds pretty gnarly when the piano is 30 cents flat.</font><br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div id="sig376" style="clear: both;"><font>Dave Stahl, RPT<br> Dave Stahl Piano Service<br> dstahlpiano@sbcglobal.net<br> dstahlpiano.net</font></div> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> -----Original Message-----<br> From: wimblees@aol.com<br> To: pmc033@earthlink.net; pianotech@ptg.org<br> Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:55 am<br> Subject: Re: Digital players in high end pianos<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_8784f4f6-985a-4de9-8f83-6b814a1b212c"> <wbr>Not having too much experience working on pianos with digital players, I can't comment on the effects on the action. But in defense of them, (all installed systems), we have to recognize that these units has helped the piano market over all. Yes, the people who have these "toys" are not using them to play them, but they do use them to listen to their pianos. Which means they do need servicing. Maybe not as often, but they do add to our customer base. <br> <br> Just a thought. <br> <br> <div style="clear: both;">Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT<br> Piano Tuner/Technician<br> Mililani, Oahu, HI<br> 808-349-2943<br> Author of: <br> The Business of Piano Tuning<br> available from Potter Press<br> <a href="http://www.pianotuning.com" target="_blank">www.pianotuning.com</a></div> <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Paul McCloud <<a href="mailto:pmc033@earthlink.net">pmc033@earthlink.net</a>><br> To: Pianotech List <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>><br> Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 5:27 am<br> Subject: RE: Digital players in high end pianos<br> <br> <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_fe1a79be-063a-466c-9d5e-efac03b11d8a"> <style>#AOLMsgPart_2_8784f4f6-985a-4de9-8f83-6b814a1b212c #AOLMsgPart_2_fe1a79be-063a-466c-9d5e-efac03b11d8a .hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px}#AOLMsgPart_2_8784f4f6-985a-4de9-8f83-6b814a1b212c #AOLMsgPart_2_fe1a79be-063a-466c-9d5e-efac03b11d8a body.hmmessage{FONT-SIZE: 10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma}</style> <div> <div><font face="MS Sans Serif">    Although I'm not an installer, we often buy pianos with pre-installed player systems.  Nearly all of the ones I've had to work on had damper leaking problems as described here.  If there is a pedal solenoid, you can drill the trap lever and install a tension spring on the lever near the solenoid.  The weight of the plunger tends to push up on the damper tray, so I found that it helps to add a spring just strong enough to counteract the weight of the solenoid.  One has to tailor the tension of the spring so that it is just enough to cure the problem, not to overload the solenoid.  Otherwise, you'll have to increase the power to the solenoid which makes it likely to make strong "clunk" noises.  </font></div> <div><font face="MS Sans Serif">     Rather than adding a compression spring on the damper tray,  I rather prefer to install it on the trap levers.  The tray should be free enough to allow gravity to work if it isn't being pushed up by the modified trapwork.   If you add the spring at the damper tray, the whole trapwork lever system has to "work harder" to overcome the spring.  Better to address the problem earlier in the trapwork chain.</font></div> <div>    <font face="MS Sans Serif">Another problem area is the junction of the pitman and the underlever.  In many installations, the stock underlever is replaced with a metal one, and the hole for the pitman pin is lined with a rubber grommet to reduce noise.  Often, the lack of clearance space doesn't allow the pitman pin to rotate in the hole, but forces the pin to move in the same arc as the trap lever.  This causes binding  which is likely to hold up the damper tray and not allow it to fall away from the damper underlevers. </font></div> <div><font face="MS Sans Serif"></font> </div> <div>    <font face="MS Sans Serif">Paul McCloud</font></div> <div>    <font face="MS Sans Serif">San Diego</font></div> <div> </div> <div> <div>Paul McCloud</div> <div>Service Technician for PianoSD.com</div> <div><a target="_blank" href="http://www.pianoservsd.com/">www.pianoservsd.com</a> </div> <div>Created with free BlueVoda software:</div> <div><a target="_blank" href="http://www.vodahost.com/partner/idevaffiliate.php?id=9223_1_3_9">http://www.vodahost.com/partner/idevaffiliate.php?id=9223_1_3_9</a></div> <div> </div> <div> </div> </div> </div> <div> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>From:</b> <a title="m_spreeman@hotmail.com" href="mailto:m_spreeman@hotmail.com">Michael Spreeman</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To: </b><a title="pianotech@ptg.org" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">Pianotech List</a></div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b> 09/24/2008 7:59:22 AM </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b> RE: Digital players in high end pianos</div> <div><br> </div> <font size="2">Hi Dave,<br>  <br> We had one installed on a Fazioli 278 on a customer's request. The customer was actually a good pianist (so, not sure why the system was installed) and eventually paid us to remove the system. The reason for the extrication was that they noticed a difference in the performance of the action with the system in. I think we even installed new hold down dags for the backrail as an intermediary solution. So, yes, it's been my experience that the system does alter action performance.<br>  <br> We also used to have issues with damping when the systems were installed on pianos that do not have damper tray springs. With the system, the damper tray would float just enough to make contact with the underlevers. So we would have to go back in and install tray springs.  Eventually, the installer did this as sop. Both the tray spring and backrail  dag installs are a real picnic in a customer's home.&nbs! p;<br> <br> <br> <div><em><font color="#330033"><font color="#330000" face="Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif">                Michael Spreeman </font><br> </font></em><font color="#000066"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.spreemanpianoinnovations.com/">http://www.spreemanpianoinnovations.com</a></font></div> <br> <br> <div id="EC_AOLMsgPart_2_1ef897aa-71b0-47b5-951a-7b5e9b5cc793"> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div id="EC_sig4502" style="clear: both;"><br> </div> </blockquote></div> <div class="EC_aol_ad_footer" id="EC_u8CAEC61AD658F3C-6B0-2D4C"><font style="font-family: ARIAL,SAN-SERIF; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; color: black;"> <hr> Find phone numbers fast with the <a title="http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001" target="_blank" href="http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001">New AOL Yellow Pages</a>!</font> </div> <br> <hr> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. <a target="_blank" href="http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/">See Now</a></font> </blockquote></div> <div id="u8CAEC85E7D800D8-10C0-16E1" class="aol_ad_footer"><font style="color: black; font-family: ARIAL,SAN-SERIF; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><hr style="margin-top: 10px;">Find phone numbers fast with the <a title="http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001" target="_blank" href="http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001">New AOL Yellow Pages</a>!</font> </div> </div>  <div id='u8CAED30893355D4-17BC-D1C' class='aol_ad_footer'><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Find phone numbers fast with the <A title="http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001" href="http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001" target="_blank">New AOL Yellow Pages</A>!</FONT> </div>