<div> Gnarly in this case is definitely not good! </div> <div> </div> <div id="sig3514" style="clear: both;">Dave Stahl, RPT Dave Stahl Piano Service dstahlpiano@sbcglobal.net dstahlpiano.net</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Browning - The Piano Tuner <justpianos@our.net.au> To: Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 4:28 am Subject: Re: Digital players in high end pianos <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_875c0248-7cdf-4713-82f2-dc8b47dcd484" style="margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>List In my "neck of the woods", gnarly means good. That can't be right! Bruce Browning The Piano Tuner. <a href="mailto:piannaman@aol.com">piannaman@aol.com</a> > > Valid point, Wim.? It does get people in the door of our business.? > > I'm surprised, though, at how few people actually use the player system, > and how few people that own pianos with these systems actually get their > pianos serviced.? If you have the full orchestra, it sounds pretty gnarly > when the piano is 30 cents flat. > > > > > > Dave Stahl, RPT > Dave Stahl Piano Service > <a href="mailto:dstahlpiano@sbcglobal.net">dstahlpiano@sbcglobal.net</a> > dstahlpiano.net > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: <a href="mailto:wimblees@aol.com">wimblees@aol.com</a> > To: <a href="mailto:pmc033@earthlink.net">pmc033@earthlink.net</a>; <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> > Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:55 am > Subject: Re: Digital players in high end pianos > > > > > > > > > > Not having too much experience working on pianos with digital players, I > can't comment on the effects on the action. But in defense of them, (all > installed systems), we have to recognize that these units has helped the > piano market over all. Yes, the people who have these "toys" are not using > them to play them, but they do use them to listen to their pianos. Which > means they do need servicing. Maybe not as often, but they do add to our > customer base. > > > > Just a thought. > > > > > > > Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT > > Piano Tuner/Technician > > Mililani, Oahu, HI > > 808-349-2943 > > Author of: > > The Business of Piano Tuning > > available from Potter Press > > <a href="http://www.pianotuning.com" target="_blank">www.pianotuning.com</a> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul McCloud <<a href="mailto:pmc033@earthlink.net">pmc033@earthlink.net</a>> > > To: Pianotech List <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>> > > Sent: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 5:27 am > > Subject: RE: Digital players in high end pianos > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ????Although I'm not an installer, we often buy pianos with pre-installed > player systems.? Nearly all of the ones I've had to work on had damper > leaking problems as described here.? If there is a pedal solenoid, you can > drill the trap lever and install a tension spring on the lever near the > solenoid.? The weight of the?plunger tends to push up on?the damper tray, > so I found that it helps to add a spring just strong enough to counteract > the weight of the solenoid.? One has to tailor the tension of the spring > so that it is just enough to cure the problem, not to overload the > solenoid.? Otherwise, you'll have to increase the power to the solenoid > which makes it likely to make strong "clunk" noises.?? > > > > > ?????Rather than adding a compression spring on the damper tray,? I rather > prefer to install it?on the trap levers.? The tray should be free enough > to allow gravity to work if it isn't being pushed up by the modified > trapwork.?? If you add the spring at the damper tray, the whole trapwork > lever system has to "work harder" to overcome the spring.? Better to > address the problem earlier in the trapwork chain. > > > > > ????Another problem area is the junction of the pitman and the > underlever.? In many installations, the stock underlever is replaced with > a metal one, and the hole for the pitman pin is lined with a rubber > grommet to reduce noise.? Often, the lack of clearance space doesn't allow > the pitman pin to rotate in the hole, but forces the pin to move in the > same arc as the trap lever.? This causes binding? which is likely to hold > up the damper tray and not allow it to fall away from the damper > underlevers. > > > > > ? > > > > > ????Paul McCloud > > > > > ????San Diego > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Paul McCloud > > > > > Service Technician for PianoSD.com > > > > > <a href="http://www.pianoservsd.com" target="_blank">www.pianoservsd.com</a> > > > > > Created with free BlueVoda software: > > > > > <a href="http://www.vodahost.com/partner/idevaffiliate.php?id=9223_1_3_9" target="_blank">http://www.vodahost.com/partner/idevaffiliate.php?id=9223_1_3_9</a> > > > > > ? > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Michael Spreeman > > > > > To: Pianotech List > > > > > Sent: 09/24/2008 7:59:22 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: Digital players in high end pianos > > > > > > > > > Hi Dave, > > ? > > We had one installed on a Fazioli 278 on a customer's request. The > customer was actually a good pianist (so, not sure why the system was > installed) and eventually paid us to remove the system. The reason for the > extrication was that they noticed a difference in the performance of the > action with the system in. I think we even installed new hold down dags > for the backrail as an intermediary solution. So, yes, it's been my > experience that the system does alter action performance. > > ? > > We also used to have issues with damping when the systems were installed > on pianos that do not have damper tray springs. With the system, the > damper tray would float just enough to make contact with the underlevers. > So we would have to go back in and install tray springs.??Eventually, the > installer did this as sop.?Both?the tray spring?and backrail? dag installs > are a real picnic in a?customer's home.&nbs! p; > > > > > > > > > ??????????????? Michael Spreeman > > <a href="http://www.spreemanpianoinnovations.com" target="_blank">http://www.spreemanpianoinnovations.com</a> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! > > > > > > > > Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows > Live. See Now > > > > > > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! > > > > > > </tt></pre> </div>  <div id='u8CAEE0ACC3AA891-5C4-3DC5' class='aol_ad_footer'><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Find phone numbers fast with the <A title="http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001" href="http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp00000001" target="_blank">New AOL Yellow Pages</A>! </div>