<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Interesting idea Ed. But I wonder about sizzles as the pins and brass “notch” would not align. May not matter, though.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Gives me a thought, however. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> What about removing the pins and plugging holes. Then, using a Forstner bit bore in a clean countersunk hole of appropriate depth. Finally, drill and tap to install agraffes. This way the string lengths can be easily established as well as bearing etc. I think I might consider this before recapping. And, in any event, should recapping be required no harm has been done.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> BTW, my last sign off should have read “respectfully” not “respectively”. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Nick Gravagne, RPT<o:p></o:p> Piano Technicians Guild<o:p></o:p> Member Society Manufacturing Engineers<o:p></o:p> Voice Mail 928-476-4143<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ed Sutton Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:30 AM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Pianotech List</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Unstringable C8, was Steinway 78183]]<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Two thoughts: <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> 1)What is the friction under the bearing bar? The highest string tension in the system will be between the tuning pin and the bearing bar. Is the bar rough, or tightened down too far? Perhaps some good lubrication on the bar would help. At one time Steinway was applying a heavy white grease to the pressure bar, if I remember correctly.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> 2)Since these are notes 87 and 88, which aren't very pretty in the best cases, is there enough notch on the bridge to try sliding a little piece of brass rod on the edge of the bridge, to make a forward termination? Not classy, but quick out of sight, and likely to be held in place by gravity assist on a vertical.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Ed Sutton<o:p></o:p> </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> ----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p> </div> <div style='font-color:black'> From: <a href="mailto:gravagnegang@att.net" title="gravagnegang@att.net">Nick Gravagne</a> <o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> .........<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> So, given that the string lengths need to be shorted in this area, the real question to the List is “what is the easiest and least costly way to do this”? And this is where the List shines brightest. But without photos and some measurements we don’t have enough information.<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> ......<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Lastly, and I say this with a grin and sincerity, you might consider doing nothing and simply accepting the fact that the top two notes must be tuned flat – kind of like your piano has a bit of arthritis or a bit of a bad back. I have a door in my house that won’t latch right. I could spend a day fixing it, or even replacing it, but I live with it and it doesn’t bother me. But that’s me. The door thing might bother you a lot, as this piano thing might as well. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Respectively,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Nick Gravagne, RPT<o:p></o:p> Piano Technicians Guild<o:p></o:p> Member Society Manufacturing Engineers<o:p></o:p> Voice Mail 928-476-4143<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Leslie Bartlett Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:02 AM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Unstringable C8, was Steinway 78183]]<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> This trust issue is a big thing. This from the lady who's top string broke on the Steinway vertical.  I forwarded all the pianotech posts to these folks- trust and respect at least sometimes coming from honest admission that a problem is beyond one's ability, but s/he will do their darndest to find a solution. Now, I just wish we could find that solution!   Extending the bridge closer to the capo seems like a reasonable possibility, huh?  It wouldn't require an entire design of a very old, and mostly nicely rebuilt piano. les b<o:p></o:p> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> </table> <o:p> </o:p> <pre>Dear Les,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>This is Mary writing; Jerry showed me the correspondence you forwarded to him about key 88 on our Steinway. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Thank you for submitting this problem for consideration by the group, and for forwarding to us their insights and ideas. Reading these discussions is fascinating as well as helpful: we get a glimpse of piano workings, and also see the interest and concern of so many knowledgeable people on this question.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>You made an excellent difference in the piano, and we appreciate it.  The action is noticeably improved, as well as the tuning. I have been playing it faithfully every day, at least some chromatic scales. You are right; it definitely responds to use.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Thank you for your good work. I am so happy that Carl recommended you.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Mary Ochoa <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote> </div> </body> </html>