<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">  <style>  </style>  </head> <body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Hello to Les and to the “lady whose top string broke on the Steinway vertical”:<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Yes, extending the “bridge” closer to the capo bar is the only possibility short of more serious and expensive alternatives. This has previously been suggested on this list by Del F., Ron N., and RicB to name a few. Someone suggested moving the capo bar closer to the bridge. Ed Sutton asked for clarification, but none was provided. I can’t imagine this is an option, but if this model has an adjustable capo then that needs to be looked at, and please send us photos!<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Now some clarifications and some questions: this is the first (I think) that we are learning that the piano has been rebuilt. How extensive was this rebuild? I am guessing the original soundboard, pinblock and bridges were retained. If so, chances are good that the plate-to-bridges relationship has not been changed from the original factory setting. As Del F. pointed out, though, many speaking length variations (and of the too-long variety) have been found in pianos like yours.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <![if !supportLists]>1)       <![endif]>A photo of the situation would be very helpful.<o:p></o:p> <![if !supportLists]>2)       <![endif]>Measurements of the highest five or six notes, but especially of notes 87 and 88 are critical to our prognosis. For example, if we find out that note 88 measures about 2” plus or minus a small amount, then the reason for strings breaking is not about too-long strings or bridge placement. (If the lengths have been provided in earlier posts, my apologies, I don’t recall seeing them).<o:p></o:p> <![if !supportLists]>3)       <![endif]>The word “bridge” appears in quotes above because “extending the bridge” closer to the capo bar describes the procedure too grossly. In many cases it is the fore-and-aft (or in this case the up-and-down) location of the notches and pins that need to be relocated. This can usually be done by recapping a short section (sometimes with an exaggerated overhang) to include the highest notes only.<o:p></o:p> <![if !supportLists]>4)       <![endif]>This is all easy to say, but from a practical hands-on perspective, this needs to be done without unstringing the entire piano, removing the plate, etc., which would be very costly. <o:p></o:p> <![if !supportLists]>5)       <![endif]>Having said that, completing the job with the plate in place is tricky. Photos would indicate how much clearance there is to work with.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> So, given that the string lengths need to be shorted in this area, the real question to the List is “what is the easiest and least costly way to do this”? And this is where the List shines brightest. But without photos and some measurements we don’t have enough information.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> In broad strokes, however, and to get the ball rolling, my first sense is that the strings and pins need to be removed in the offending area. Next, a paper or thin plastic sheet pattern needs to be made of the existing notch and pin scale. Now comes the trickiest part: the upper portion of the bridge (including the cap and a portion of the bridge body below it) needs to be removed such that the left sidewall of the bridge remains as vertical as possible, while the bottom of same remains as flat as possible.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> This will require careful work with a small saw and sharp chisels unless it can be done with an overhead routing system. However this is done, the resulting cutout might not be perfect but it will provide decent surfaces for gap-gluing or epoxying in the new wood. If this can be done while the plate is in place, especially with a small saw and a variety of chisels, the rest is clear sailing for an experienced bridge worker.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> As to the replacement “cap”: my suggestion is that the entire piece should be cut to shape, set for height, notched, drilled and pinned prior to gluing in. Attempting to accomplish all these tasks with the piece in place will be tricky at best and perhaps impossible. Do not use the 1” bridge pins --- use the �” pins (probably size 6) or even shorter as available from Shaff. This will allow for the shortest replacement piece to be used.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Well, this is still a good deal of careful work, and should be done by an experienced bridge worker. The List may provide much simpler and even less costly procedures. My off-the-hip outline above may be trashed by someone with a brilliantly simpler solution. Let’s see what happens. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Lastly, and I say this with a grin and sincerity, you might consider doing nothing and simply accepting the fact that the top two notes must be tuned flat – kind of like your piano has a bit of arthritis or a bit of a bad back. I have a door in my house that won’t latch right. I could spend a day fixing it, or even replacing it, but I live with it and it doesn’t bother me. But that’s me. The door thing might bother you a lot, as this piano thing might as well. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Respectively,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Nick Gravagne, RPT<o:p></o:p> Piano Technicians Guild<o:p></o:p> Member Society Manufacturing Engineers<o:p></o:p> Voice Mail 928-476-4143<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Leslie Bartlett Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:02 AM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Unstringable C8, was Steinway 78183]]<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> This trust issue is a big thing. This from the lady who's top string broke on the Steinway vertical.  I forwarded all the pianotech posts to these folks- trust and respect at least sometimes coming from honest admission that a problem is beyond one's ability, but s/he will do their darndest to find a solution. Now, I just wish we could find that solution!   Extending the bridge closer to the capo seems like a reasonable possibility, huh?  It wouldn't require an entire design of a very old, and mostly nicely rebuilt piano. les b<o:p></o:p> <table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> <tr> <td nowrap valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> <td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'> <o:p> </o:p> </td> </tr> </table> <o:p> </o:p> <pre>Dear Les,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>This is Mary writing; Jerry showed me the correspondence you forwarded to him about key 88 on our Steinway. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Thank you for submitting this problem for consideration by the group, and for forwarding to us their insights and ideas. Reading these discussions is fascinating as well as helpful: we get a glimpse of piano workings, and also see the interest and concern of so many knowledgeable people on this question.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>You made an excellent difference in the piano, and we appreciate it.� The action is noticeably improved, as well as the tuning. I have been playing it faithfully every day, at least some chromatic scales. You are right; it definitely responds to use.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Thank you for your good work. I am so happy that Carl recommended you.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Mary Ochoa <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></div> </body> </html>