<html> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)"> <style>  </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> That’s pretty much it.  I find that sampling around note 40 and notes 60 – 64 are the key areas.  The bass tends to be more forgiving.  It can be difficult to extrapolate an entire piano from a couple of samples but when you put a couple of different hammers side by side you can get a sense.  While (another post) one can fool the ear in a single octave by voicing a number of different hammers to sound the same, there is no question that different hammers will create a completely different tonal impression when you hear the entire piano with one or the other.  There is, in my view, generally a better choice to be made.  One size does not fit all.  For example, I’ve put a Premium Blue on a piano that seemed to sample OK and 8 hours worth of voicing later it did sound ok, even very good, but I could have gotten there a lot easier another route and with probably a more stable result.  The forgotten issue is not just how the hammer sounds after the initial voicing but how it will develop.  Many hammers sound ok out of the box but don’t develop well, at least not for a given piano.  The idea that a hammer starts underneath the ideal tonal level and develops over the first 100+ hours of playing seems lost in these days of instant everything yet the best and most stable sound that I have encountered comes from just that type of approach.  On a concert piano, of course, you don’t have that luxury, but then those pianos are not generally being played on for the same amount of time per week.    <div> David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net www.davidlovepianos.com </div> -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of erwinspiano@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:33 AM To: pianotech@ptg.org; ray@ronsen-hammer.com; Barbk@Brandfelt.com; st.piano@verizon.net Subject: Re: New Weickert felt limited edition piano hammer     Hi Terry  Terry   Sorry you didn't, find it. Hopefully David will jump in here.       The advice David Love a year or two back got me to thinking especially in conjunction with our respective journeys into the world of Soundboard design.  It was simply this : instead of assuming that Brand A or R or R or S would yield the best results in a piano, simply hang a couple test samples in your rebuild before committing to a particular type or version. By doing this an instant idea can be assessed as to what you will hear and need to do to build the tone up or take it down  or let it just play in.    Also using a no 6 needle  sample felt densities of the old hammers, especially if the piano yet sounds decent even though the hammers are worn. This can be a massive indicator, I've learned to listen to this ,the piano is talking to me. It's telling me high density is ok.    If the piano is screeching at me & the hammers are hard, it's telling me, no, no, not more petrified felt hammers. grin   Every belly system is different (as you know) & this is why we voice hammers, which is to make the density requirement of the hammer maximize & match the impedance values of that board. Which is, by the way, why there are no perfect hammers...well, except Rays. grin.  However, the closer you call it before the hammer choice is made the less work you will need to do to get your desired tone.    If a given belly system is stiff it may ask for a highly densified hammer that can be needled appropriately. If it is very compliant resonate system then simply using a high density hammer by default may not work well & much effort will be expended attempting to blend the voicing of this hammer with that particular system. The same is conversely true. for example     I sampled hammers in a 9 ft Grotrian 2 years ago. I found it to be a stigny system & held not much hope. However upon sampling it, it revelaed  that  it wanted the Abel performance hammers from Piano- tek. A very dense hammer(an oddly cold pressed cousin) but on this piano it was instant sound and only the 5 th 6 th octaves required needle work of about an hour. It didn't want Renners nor Ronsen or the usual Abels. This was a light bulb moment for me so now I carry a sample bag of various hammers from various makers & all 4 of the felts that Ray uses at Ronsen.  Some on shanks, some not so I can pop hammers on or off shanks in the piano and do sampling. I usually do this work in the shop when possible  SO keep samples handy that you can temporarily install in the piano before you tear it down or decide on a hammer choice.    By in large if a soundboard system is built in a reasonable manner  95% of my tone needs  can be met with one of Rays hammer felts. Don't be fooled into thinking that just because a Yamaha or Kawai etc came with high density hammers that this what needs to go back on.. They might, but I've never used high density hammers in them. I do believe there 9 ftrs need them however.   Dale Erwin <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_2e1d4392-bf2c-4168-937e-47f0425dd6e3"> <div> Dale - I have searched the archives for comments by David Love on hammer sampling and wasn't able to find anything. Do you have a link? Would you care to comment on this? David? I'm presently in the process of installing a set of hammers on a Del Fandrich redesigned belly (1890s 6'4" Knabe) and can use all the help I can get - pretty much a new world to me. Whereas previous hammer installations on other similar projects have been successful, it has always seemed to be a bit of a shot in the dark for me - I'd just kinda hold my breath and see what shook out - I'd sure like to go about the selection/preparation process more methodically. Thanks. </div> <div>   </div> <div> Terry Farrell </div> <blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt; margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <div> ----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style='font-color:black'> from: <a href="mailto:erwinspiano@aol.com" title="erwinspiano@aol.com">erwinspiano@aol.com</a>  </div> <div style='font-color:black'> SNIP </div> <div style='font-color:black'>  It's still a good idea to practice hammer sampling that David Love has been a proponent of. See archives for details. </div> </blockquote> </div>  <div id=MAILCIAMA032-5bbd48f5f0fa35>   <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> </HR>McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while you browse - <a href="http://toolbar.aol.com/elections/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000002">Download Now!</a> </div> </div> </body> </html>