Hey Shawn, The figure they show is usually what they mean, not "commenserate with experience". They will offer the job at the rate they offer!   What you have to do is sell them on your dollar figure and close the deal on why you are worth more than  so and so..and what you can offer as a benefit to the university.  When offered, state your entry level you're comfortable with.  They'll either take it or leave it.   That's a hard row to hoe....Once you're in, however, it's really hard to get more than the usual raise!  I'm learning that the hard way, but at least I started at a decent start. I should have asked for more.... Paul <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=40%>"Shawn Brock" <shawnbrock@fuse.net> Sent by: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org 10/21/2008 12:46 PM <table border> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=59%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>To</div> <td>"Pianotech List" <pianotech@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: Best approach for acquiring new business.</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> Paul,   I agree with you 100 percent on pretty much everything you said.  I am not knocking CAUT workers at all.  Anyone can see the benefits of those positions, however some of those jobs are just hideous!  Picture this, I was asked to apply for a university job here in the Midwest.  The school has 100 pianos and the advertised pay range was one of the lowest that CAUT workers have witnessed in the past 8 years.  The Director of the Music Department swore to me that they had to advertise the lowest offered pay amount because of some state regulations.  So dumb me goes down and takes the Civil Service exam, works on 2 badly neglected instruments and goes through the interview process only to find out that the pay offered is as exactly the amount advertised.  So I had 2 trips totaling 1400 miles, basically 4 days of lost work not to even speak of my fuel, food and lodging costs.  All of this just to find out the University had more or less lied about the hole thing.  All of my time and hopes were wasted on a job that would have paid just shy of $28000 per year.  I didn't spend all this time studying, apprenticing, going to school to gain the necessary knowledge and skills that would make me more employable, studying for and passing the RPT exams and constantly trying to better my self as a tuner and technician to take an almost poverty level job.  A short time into my apprenticeship I asked my mentor what I had to do to get one of these university positions.  His reply was that I needed to go to school.  He said that would give me more valuable experience in a short time than anything else and make me more employable.  So that's what I did.  While in school I asked the same question to my instructors and other members of the PTG, the answer was to get my RPT.  So I did that and while I'm ecstatic to be an RPT who's graduated from an accredited piano technology institution I can't say that it has helped me a hole lot on the employment front.  So, here I am making more money than a lot of the CAUT folks but I have a lot more expenses to go with it.   Regards,  Shawn Brock, RPT 513-316-0563 <a href=http://www.shawnbrock.com/>www.shawnbrock.com</a> ----- Original Message ----- From: <a href=mailto:pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu>Paul T Williams</a> To: <a href=mailto:pianotech@ptg.org>Pianotech List</a> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 5:53 PM Subject: Re: Best approach for acquiring new business. Shawn, There is a very good reason I took a CAUT job. It's the now lack of driving 50K miles a year, having full benefits, a 401K, all the insurance, driving only 5 miles to work, getting to work on what really needs work without having to "sell" something, nobody looks over me, I have full reign on the pianos and I say what is to be done!!   I spent 15 years in the Pacific NW  living on an island with 4 RPT's and a couple of joker"tooners" who got most of the low-end business, but good money....also worked among the most awesome nationally known techs who got all the best of the best...so I had to scrape up the in-between.  I don't know your area's business, but don't knock the CAUT position.  It's very nice...much over the $35K and when you figure in the benefits, works well into the 55-60K range or more. I know I deserve more for the 130 pianos I care for, but there is some sort of peace I get for getting to "play around" with what I've got to work with....I want damn good money, too, but right now, in the current downslide of the economy, I'm really greatful for what I have...  In the Seattle area, whenever Boeing had a strike, I suffered, immediately, as well (so supports the middle of the road piano customers I'm talking about) . Price yourself accordingly and with proper follow-up, you'll make enough...Just good luck with health insurance, business insurance, retirement package, travel expenses, and the like.... Paul   <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=47%>"Shawn Brock" <shawnbrock@fuse.net> Sent by: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org 10/20/2008 03:24 PM <table border=4> <tr valign=top> <td bgcolor=white> <div align=center>Please respond to Pianotech List <pianotech@ptg.org></div></table> <td width=52%> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td width=14%> <div align=right>To</div> <td width=85%>"Pianotech List" <pianotech@ptg.org> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>cc</div> <td> <tr valign=top> <td> <div align=right>Subject</div> <td>Re: Best approach for acquiring new business.</table> <table> <tr valign=top> <td> <td></table> </table> Wem and all,   .  Making a decent living is all fine and well but I want more than decent!  I want damn good!  I'm to the point in my business where I would not think of abandoning it for some $35000 university gig.  Its funny to think that a college job was all I ever wanted but now I am seeing the down side to that life.     <hr>McCain or Obama? 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