<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Nice post Paul. I second everything you said.<div><br></div><div>Allan, none of this is a personal attack. I'm sorry you took it that way. It's just frustration with the change that we have no control over. If you want to start a web based list, then fine for those who want to use it, but keep this one in place.</div><div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div>Al -</div><div>High Point, NC</div><div><br></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br><div><div>On Mar 9, 2011, at 9:08 AM, Paul McCloud wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"> <div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> On 3/9/2011 3:16 AM, Allan Gilreath, RPT wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:4D77619D.2050308@bellsouth.net" type="cite"> List members,<br> <br> For the last 13 years, I have devoted large portions of my life to serving those in the Piano Technicians Guild. During that time, I've tried to cover every post that comes across Pianotech, CAUT or PTG-L (as well as other duties that had me at least gleaning information from, if not participating in, every committee list and other lists.) My posts have become rather infrequent given the other duties at hand but I still considered myself a participant in the lists.  I have nothing but admiration for Jack Reeves who started the original list at BYU as well as Andy Rudoff and Ron Berry who have devoted countless hours to keeping these things running.  As it is, these lists will continue at least through this year's Convention in Kansas City. The new web-based forums will also be in place.  What happens after that is up to the Board of Directors that will then be in place.  I say that not at all flippantly but know that the individuals currently in place, and any who are likely to find it in their hearts to serve, are quite aware of everyone's desires. I hope that by that time the obvious answers will be in place for best serving the membership as a whole.<br> <br> Much input was sought from numerous individuals around the country, both list users and those who don't. I personally talked with older technicians, younger technicians, computer savvy ones as well as those who prefer to avoid them as much as possible. We even held a session during a class period at the recent WestPac 1 and I appreciate those who took the time to come and learn about what could be accomplished while remaining a bit surprised that some of those who were at the Conference but didn't take time to attend that session are criticizing on this list.<br> <br> Many individuals put extensive amounts of energy into developing this program and it operates on numerous levels. The membership database was at a point where a decision had to be made. Some parts of our old website worked wonderfully while a few areas had difficulties.  Ron and Andy have both devoted extensive amounts of time to maintaining what we had but how much do we have to right to ask of individual volunteers? The approach was developed to devise a system to utilize technology rather than continuing to overburden both our volunteers and our staff and it seemed that we could provide a platform that can grow over time and adapt to a more collaborative process. After working with the new system a little, I've found it easy to organize into threads, post files and customize the site to some of my desires. Is it perfect? Far from it but I knew going in that it would grow, develop and change over time. There are many aspects to this system and most are working wonderfully. <br> <br> PTG Presidents regularly lose sleep over matters concerning the Guild members whom they serve. I almost didn't go to the Boy Scout meeting last night, where I also serve as a leader,  with so much weighing on my mind.  Admittedly, I was feeling pretty bad that so much effort had been put into a project and the comments that were coming through from members and even non-members were quite so cutting of not only the effort but also individuals. When we have an organization that is member-driven, it seems to be that it should be based upon member-effort just as much.  Obviously, I have failed with a number of you in letting you realize how much input you have and how highly I have regarded your opinions, input and expertise.  The only reason I took time out of my schedule to try to answer questions recently was due to that desire to serve since I'm pretty severely back-logged in the shop after taking time away from work and family to attend NAMM, Mid-Year Board meeting and WestPac since the beginning of the year.<br> <br> When I arrived at the Scout meeting last night, I was feeling pretty low. During the course of the evening, I saw realization hit a young man that he had been bullying. I also learned that one of our boys had tried to commit suicide because of a terrible family situation. This really put things in perspective to remind me that there are real things happening far more important than email rants or any petty problems of my own. I saw those boys not just pay lip service to the tenets by which they promise to live but actually try to put them into practice. When one of them let slip an inappropriate word, the entire Troop did 20 push-ups.  My duty and my privilege is to serve them and to help them grow.<br> <br> Ironically, I see people write derisively about "those in power" or "the powers that be." None of the positions in which I've served in PTG have ever been about that. Personally, I was not at a good point in my life to sacrifice the time nor was I totally willing. During the time period I mentioned at the beginning of this message, I started a new business, welcomed my son into the world, got through some of the worst economic times in my life and worked on growing a business while serving PTG and trying to keep my priorities straight on what I needed to do in life.<br> <br> However, the recent lack of courtesy, respect or kindness have been overwhelming.   Some of the language used has been totally inappropriate and I'm ashamed to see it on what is supposed to be a professional discussion.  Little <grins> and such don't make up for cutting comments.  When comments such as those that have come across this list occur, they undermine that fabric of those to or about whom they're directed and also reflect very poorly on those who make them. The mob mentality that develops sometimes is a very negative aspect.  I'm supposed to have a thick "skin" in doing this job but this time that has proven insufficient when those whom I have respected and even thought of as friends act in such a manner. Ironically, there are people out there who actually think I'm paid to do this. To those who are considering, or even advocating, boycotts, signing off and such, you can rest assured that that is never the wish nor the desire of anyone leading PTG. My fondest hope is that all find what they're looking for.<br> <br> On this first day of Lent, I'm going to try to follow the advise that was given to Peter and forgive not seven but seventy times seven since I'm personally experiencing thoughts that aren't entirely kind.  During this message, the usage of the word "I" occurred much more often than I like to see in anything from my pen. My apologies go out to anyone not involved for taking up the bandwidth and my apologies to everyone on the list for a non-technical post.  I'm signing off of all of these lists to get my heart in the right place regarding serving, leading and growing.<br> <br> My best to all,<br> <br> <span style="color: black;"> <div dir="ltr"> <div><span style="font-family: georgia,serif;">Allan</span><br style="font-family: georgia,serif;"> <span style="font-family: georgia,serif;">Allan Gilreath, RPT</span><br> Registered Piano Technician<br> <span><Mail Attachment.jpeg></span><br> <span style="font-family: georgia,serif;">President - Piano Technicians Guild</span><br style="font-family: georgia,serif;"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pres@ptg.org">pres@ptg.org</a><br style="font-family: georgia,serif;"> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ptg.org/"><span style="font-family: georgia,serif;">www.ptg.org</span></a><br style="font-family: georgia,serif;"> <font size="2"><span style="font-family: georgia,serif;">phone - 706 602-7667</span></font></div> </div> </span><br> </blockquote> Hi, Allan:<br>     I am saddened to hear of your response to the discussion on the new web based pianotech lists.  Posts on a list such as ours can seem cold and impersonal.  Feelings are misunderstood, and somehow the warmth and comraderie of a personal interaction is lost in and electronic medium such as this.  I can understand from your last post how much pressure you are under, and believe me there is more than one of us out here that DOES really appreciate your sacrifice for the Guild.  If everything goes smoothly, it's easy to forget to appreciate how much someone worked to create that situation.  When things are going awry, blame fingers point every which way.  Since you are at the top, unfortunately those fingers point your way.  <br>     I've read every post on this topic, and I've not heard of any intentionally demeaning remarks directed at you on a personal level.  The use of a "grin" or other icon is intended, however imperfectly, to soften the blow and prevent hard feelings.  I'm afraid in this case the "grins" haven't worked.  I can only speak for myself, but I'll bet Fort Knox that I'm speaking for nearly all of us listers when I say that you have misunderstood the intent of our comments.  They were never meant as a personal swipe to you, but as a frustration over a situation that none of us can directly control.<br>     Frustration is a cause of anger.  Not being able to control much of the infrastructure on the list, we rely upon volunteers like Andy Rudoff and the other administrators to create it and maintain it.  So when it isn't working to "our" satisfaction, we get upset.  We had it good, and took it (this list) for granted.  Now that the easier way is being changed, we are upset and want to keep it the way it was.  In a way, we don't really have anything to say about how the list is administered,  because we are out of the loop.  If it is replaced by a different format, there isn't really any way for us to affect the decision to change it.  And so, there is frustration over this.  In the Middle East, the exact same thing is happening.  The people want to control their own destiny and be done with the dictator.<br>     In all this, your extraordinary efforts to revise the list from an email forum to a web based forum may seem threatened by the response to the changes.  Shall I say, hate the sin, not the sinner?  We hate you not, but the result of your work is not liked.  And that is the hard part, disconnecting our comments from you personally.          We appreciate your efforts, but we would like to have input on the list that many of us use on a daily basis.  If it can't continue in the present form because of the unweildy nature of it, the herculean efforts needed to keep it going, then of course something has/had to be done.  That is the nature of time, to break things down.  So, in that case, ;you have come up with a plan to remedy and improve the situation.  And that plan has come to fruition in our new PTG website and email list integration.  It is a laudable effort, and I'm sure everyone involved has spent literally countless hours on it.  Voluntarily, no pay at all. I didn't do it, so I can easily criticize.  What is obtained for free is easily dismissed.  The list is free, so I can take it for granted and make ill comments if I want to.  So, we make all kinds of comments that are full of anger and frustration because what we had taken for granted has been put in jeopardy.  Really, we have not much of a leg to stand on, as we have no skin in the game.  We are participants, but not controllers.  <br>     My hope, from this post, is that you can step back and see from a more detached viewpoint.  None of us would like to hurt you personally.  I challenge anyone on this list to disagree and say we want to attack you on that level.  What we want to do is to improve it, and it seems we are going to be stuck with something we don't like and no way to affect the outcome.  There are attempts to make suggestions, changes, improvements, etc., that seem to be ignored.  That's what is driving the comments, and they aren't meant for you personally.  <br>     I hope this meets you with the best intentions.  You are doing a great job, even though it seems unappreciated.  I hope you can heal the wounds you are feeling.  But know that most of that is coming from how you are reacting to the comments, and it is not intentional on our part.<br>     Best to you.<br>     Paul McCloud<br>     San Diego<br> <blockquote cite="mid:4D77619D.2050308@bellsouth.net" type="cite"> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- PK</pre> </blockquote> <br> </div> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>