<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> On 11:59 AM, Encore Pianos wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:%3C001201cbdf2d$e3ddaff0$ab990fd0$@metrocast.net%3E" type="cite"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal">So Isreal, are you saying that those who disagree with you should be thrown in with the crunchy granola crowd?  Are we part of a greater conspiracy that the unsuspecting public knows nothing about – the Intergalactic Insect Brain Trust?  I’ve never owned Birkenstocks, will I be arrested and charged anyway?<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p><br> </o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> No, Will. Just those who couch their disagreement in the sort of preachy and utterly sanctimonious manner reminiscent of all that sixties' pop psychology that makes you feel like you are swimming through a sea of custard... I rather appreciate the sort of pointed criticism spiced with a bit of humor such as your message above.  I disagree vociferously and pointedly with some of my best friends - and appreciate the intellectual challenge the throw at me. Just ask Bill Shull... <br> <br> <blockquote cite="mid:%3C001201cbdf2d$e3ddaff0$ab990fd0$@metrocast.net%3E" type="cite"> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal">Ok, I’ve had my fun.  It’s time to remember that you are not the enemy and we are not the enemy.  The problems are with the new website and issues within and not with each other.  It’s time to throw water on the discussion, not gasoline.  Speak to the issues at hand only – that’s addressed to you and me and everybody else.  If you have an argument, support it with reason and facts.  Let’s look for solutions, not blame.</p> </div> </blockquote> Point taken. Thank you. <br> <br> Israel Stein <br> <br> <br> <blockquote cite="mid:%3C001201cbdf2d$e3ddaff0$ab990fd0$@metrocast.net%3E" type="cite"> <div class="WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Peace, Brother<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Will Truitt<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Israel Stein<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:34 AM<br> <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [pianotech] List changes - it's a lot bigger than just the lists...<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Al,<br> <br> It's funny how many people have expressed appreciation for my putting things in perspective - and did not see my post as a personal attack on anyone at all. Some people, I guess, are just a bit thin skinned - of whom at least one is well known for his habit of intellectually browbeating anyone who happens to disagree with him... And some of the cloying sanctimony that I have seen here in response to my post absolutely makes me retch (not you, Al, you are pretty straightforward) - and I get an awful lot of that here in Berkeley from the organic-and-Birkenstock crowd and should be immune to it by now... <br> <br> Israel Stein <br> <br> <br> On 11:59 AM, Al Guecia/Allied PianoCraft wrote: <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Israel, I think you should address the problems and concerns here and stop making personal attacks!  <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif";">Al -<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif";">High Point, NC<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Helvetica","sans-serif";"><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">On Mar 10, 2011, at 1:14 AM, Israel Stein wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">On 11:59 AM, Ron Nossaman wrote:<br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">On 3/9/2011 8:36 PM, Israel Stein wrote:<o:p></o:p></p> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal">And yes there are issues there - but I see<o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal">that Ron Nossaman has gotten out of his "this is crap" mode and started<o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal">asking constructive questions about how it could possibly be made to<o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal">work.<o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </blockquote> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal">Charming, as always.<o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> <p class="MsoNormal">Pot calling the kettle black, sir...<br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"> <p class="MsoNormal">In the old format, I've learned valuable things from people I might not otherwise read at all from their long record of having nothing much interesting or lucid to say. The value of information is not contingent on it's source, but on it's validity, and unlikely people know interesting things on occasion that I'm grateful to learn. The threading, discussion grouping, and other social filtering trends are real horizon limiters in my opinion, as very busy people limit their exposure to ideas to what they are concerned with at this hour. Next week will naturally be different as the crisis hot line turns. Some folks are actually interested in and able to learn, change, and adapt to what's important to them without being forced into a new and improved format that has to be kicked out of the way to get to the process. I offered some modified possibilities, which I haven't heard back on, incidentally, that would allow the "fogies" all the raw data and interactivity necessary to maintain their current and changing state of knowledge, and still let the new age pursue their passions. The thing is really not that far off from being usable for everyone with some changes, if that's an allowable concept. Awaiting enlightenment on that one, but I suspect I already know the answer.<o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> <p class="MsoNormal">We will find out - won't we? I am glad that you offered your suggestions - and I noted that in the original post. I am not happy that an atmosphere of mockery and derision was created before those suggestions were offered.<br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">I know the old system has burned out the folks that made it work, but it still strikes me as curious that the users weren't polled before the money was spent and major changes were made. If our preferences don't count, why bother to maintain discussion lists at all?<o:p></o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Don't know - i wasn't part of the process. But instead of immediately jumping on people - perhaps it might be useful to first find out what factors were used in the decision? And how do you know that some users were not polled? As much as a small core of users like to believe that this list is theirs - there is a huge body of subscribers who might not agree with you, and also quite a sizable body of former subscribers who have been driven off this list by the format and the attitudes of some of the "major contributors".<br> <br> Israel Stein<br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>