<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:ns1="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/>  <style>  </style>  </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Hi Dean,<o:p></o:p> Sure. I was taught and greatly assisted by Dale Fox.<o:p></o:p> I do not think that I can describe the procedure accurate enough and I likely will leave out some details but some things that are important are: Register plate to case and bridge and record height. Plan on refinishing the plate. Investigate how the existing hitch pins are in the plate – straight up and down or at an angle. If they are straight up and down you may be able to use these holes and avoid drilling more holes. Be certain that the hitch pin area of the plate is massive enough for more holes. Strings off but leave under-string felt in place for help with alignment. Bridge pins out. Is the alignment of the existing bridge notches in relation to tuning pin holes and hitch pins good – correct any spacing issues. The pins for vertical are 7/32 rolled steel and will be wider than existing hitches so keep in mind when spacing. I have used vice grips to break off the hitches and then a grinder to make everything flat but grinding them completely may be a bit less risky – you don’t want to chip the plate - grind smooth. Use a string to align and locate new pin holes and mark with punch. Put the plate on saw horses and use a radial drill press to drill the holes. Make the effort to level the drill with the plate so holes are straight up and down and consistent. Dale mounted his press on a big flat solid wood door if you can visualize that and made an air pad glide base to make it easier to move the drill press. <o:p></o:p> If the existing hitch pins are in at an angle but located to your liking you may consider a punch mark on the rear edge so that the drill will bisect the hitch pin that remains in the hole and the plate about 50/50. But the strength of the plate is important and it pays to take time to consider the situation.<o:p></o:p> On my Knabe and the different Steinway’s that I converted, the spacing and alignment of hitches and bridge notches to the tuning pin holes needed help – especially in the lower part of the long bridge. Don’t assume the existing hitches are located correct. <o:p></o:p> If you are not replacing the bridge or bridge cap then it will be different and I have not done that one yet.<o:p></o:p> Tap new pins in and have about ½ inch in and above the plate. Keep the slot in the rolled pin to the rear and aligned with the string plane.<o:p></o:p> The photo shows my Knabe. The holes are drilled. I ground off the cast aliquot and used epoxy to help create a smooth surface. <o:p></o:p> Gene<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Dean May Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:44 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">pianotech@ptg.org</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stwy A (6' 1") speaking lengths<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> Hi Gene<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Can you post any pictures or explain your protocol for retrofitting vertical hitch pins without a complete rebuild?<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> Many thanks,<o:p></o:p>  <o:p></o:p> <div> Dean<o:p></o:p> Dean W May                (812) 235-5272 voice and text<o:p></o:p> PianoRebuilders.com    (888) DEAN-MAY<o:p></o:p> <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><u2:CITY u1:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Terre Haute</st1:City></u2:CITY></st1:City> <U2:STATE u1:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">IN</st1:State></U2:STATE></st1:State> <U2:POSTALCODE u1:st="on"><st1:PostalCode w:st="on"><st1:PostalCode w:st="on">47802</st1:PostalCode></U2:POSTALCODE></st1:PostalCode></st1:place></st1:place><o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p></ST1:PLACE> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Gene Nelson Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:09 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">pianotech@ptg.org</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stwy A (6' 1") speaking lengths<o:p></o:p> Will, <o:p></o:p> No I did not use vertical hitches. The client did not want to alter the traditional look of the piano but I have done this on others and always will suggest that it should be done to future clients.<o:p></o:p> Gene<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Encore Pianos Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 12:01 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">pianotech@ptg.org</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stwy A (6' 1") speaking lengths<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> And another question would be, did you use a vertical hitch pin, which would elevate the string off the plate and move the effective termination of the waste length back another 10 to 20 mm?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Will Truitt<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Alan Eder Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:05 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">pianotech@ptg.org</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stwy A (6' 1") speaking lengths<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Gene,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> I thought increasing back scale lengths might be the reason why, but have learned the hard way not to assume anything.  So, was the difference in lengths gained solely through the elimination of the cantilever, or was the base of the bridge also moved?  And I take it that there is a noticeable change, and you like it? <o:p></o:p> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> Thanks,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> Alan Eder<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> -----Original Message----- From: Gene Nelson <nelsong@intune88.com> To: pianotech <<st1:PersonName w:st="on">pianotech@ptg.org</st1:PersonName>> Sent: Fri, Mar 18, 2011 6:42 am Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stwy A (6' 1") speaking lengths<o:p></o:p> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_7a18b691-aeec-4624-9c35-63624c4531cf"> <div> <div> Del Fandrich has taught about improved tone with longer back scale length in the lo-bass and I believe him. His portable device demonstrates this for all to hear. If you get a chance to take this class you should.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The lo-bass on this piano especially had short back scale and the extra 16mm helped get the back scale length closer to 80 or 90mm on the lowest few notes – excluding the tied part of the wire - cannot recall exact lengths. I would have shortened the lo-bass speaking lengths more but was restricted by the plate casting.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> The original bridge and its cantilever was also replaced with a new bridge and no cantilever.<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Gene<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> <div> From: <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org?">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Alan Eder Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 8:37 AM To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stwy A (6' 1") speaking lengths<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Thanks for the info, Gene.  Looks like you put the long bridge back in the same relative position to the plate, but shortened up the speaking lengths in the bass by 12 to 16 mm.  I would be very interested in knowing what led you to make this change? <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> Thanks again,<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> Alan Eder<o:p></o:p> </div> <div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> -----Original Message----- From: Gene Nelson <<a href="mailto:nelsong@intune88.com">nelsong@intune88.com</a>> To: pianotech <<a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a>> Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 1:08 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stwy A (6' 1") speaking lengths<o:p></o:p> </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_9dac31d7-b2e0-43a5-aca8-3a3b92d1115f"> <div> <div> <div> 1909 A original<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> #1=1415mm<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> #20=1078<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> #21=1207<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> #88=51<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> Rescaled – new board, strings, bass bridge and bridge capps, block etc.<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> #1=1399<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> #20=1066<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> #21=1207<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div> #88=51<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center> </div> </div> <div> <div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_20dffd61-57e2-47a4-87c6-ba7a59e16d49"><pre style='background:white'><tt>>Does anyone have information about speaking lengths (particularly </tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt>>notes nos. 1, 20, 21 and 88) for Steinway model A, 6' 1" (1913). </tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt>> This could be information either from Steinway itself, or from </tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt>>observation, or even your own notion of what might work best.  The </tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt>>project in question does not involve adding a transition bridge or </tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt>>rescaling, but comparing the original condition of a piano getting a </tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt>>new board and bridge caps with other iterations of the same model.</tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><tt> </tt><o:p></o:p></pre></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html>