<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1>My experience with the one set that I hung on a Steinway A was that it didn’t sound markedly different to me, a little more power perhaps, but no obvious differences in the coloration of the sound. This was on a set of Weikert felt Ronsen hammers from Dale.   So to me the twisting on the axis we are talking about does not seem to have an obvious effect on the tone.  <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>It seems likely that these carbon fiber shanks have their stiffness where it is most needed – in the vertical plane where it would most need to resist the forces of bending.  The oscillating  that Mark describes will still take place, although less so with the  added stiffness of the CF shanks.  I guess the question is how much twisting force will the hammer head introduce to the shank when it is striking the three strings off center or in the shift position?<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Will<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Dale Erwin Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 10:24 AM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Shank questions<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Perhaps using a water thin epoxy like rot doctor to quickly coat the average set of wooden shanks would seem to me to add some stiffness as well and secondarily....   humidity resistance. Just muttering out loud here.<o:p></o:p><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div>Dale S. Erwin <a href="http://www.Erwinspiano.com">www.Erwinspiano.com</a> 209-577-8397 "We are what we repeatedly do.  Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit." -Aristotle <o:p></o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div><o:p> </o:p></div><div>-----Original Message----- From: Mark Dierauf <pianotech@nhpianos.com> To: pianotech@ptg.org Sent: Thu, May 26, 2011 5:39 am Subject: Re: [pianotech] Shank questions<o:p></o:p><div id="AOLMsgPart_0_9852898e-674f-42e9-9c00-350b9fd0cebb">Have you seen the Kawai high-speed videos of hammer/string contact? There's a lot going on with the hammerhead oscillating all over the place. If that oscillation is expanded into another axis I could easily imagine it having a tonal effect, which would seem unlikely to be positive. When my own piano gets  a new set of hammers I may try one or two of the carbon shanks in each section to see just how much tonal difference is actually perceptible, and whether I like or dislike that difference. I like the theoretical advantages that these shanks offer - uniformity of stiffness, impervious-ness  to humidity, and customizable knuckle position - but honestly what matters most is whether or not they make the piano sound better. So far that is not at all obvious to me from the few examples I've heard. Keeping my fingers crossed, though! - Mark On 2:59 PM, Encore Pianos wrote: <o:p></o:p><div><div>My experience with the WNG shanks is as Mark describes, and do seem to twist more than wooden shanks.  How important is this  in relation to a hammer striking a string?  Not sure that it  is meaningful.  <o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div>Will Truitt<o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div>From: <a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a> [<a href="mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org">mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org</a>] On Behalf Of Ed Foote Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:35 PM To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Shank questions<o:p></o:p></div><div> <o:p></o:p></div><div><div id="AOLMsgPart_0_db2e26df-c5ef-4012-8608-60a51aac68d4"><pre style='background:white'><tt>At 15:44 -0400 25/05/2011, Mark Dierauf wrote:</tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'><tt> </tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'><tt>>Interestingly, although the WNG shanks are stiffer than your average </tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'><tt>>wooden shank, they seem to be noticeably more prone to twisting.</tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'><tt> </tt><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'><tt> </tt>Hmm,  this is the first time I have heard of this, and the several WNG shanks I have seen with hammers on them <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'> didn't' seem to twist nearly as much  as wooden ones did.  What anecdotes do others have? <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'>Regards, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white;background-attachment:scroll;background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:0%'>Ed Foote rpt<o:p></o:p></pre></div></div></div><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></body></html>