Hi Paul    I like Ronsen hammers but we don't make hammers for every application, but then...nobody does and that's ok with me. We have our definite tonal niche.   It will come as a surprise to some that In the process of developing the new Weickert felt hammer Ray & I collaborated not only with Jack Brand the felt maker at Wurzen but also with Rick Baldassin and Lloyd Meyer at Renner USA.  But thru our efforts together we  exchanged some development info which was feedback we gave to Jack. We both helped develop a revolutionary product in record time and got a better product in the process. I know..... what a shock 2 competitors helping each other out. aye? I also made a good friend in Rick    In teh end what we agreed on was that the " Renner & Ronsen  have complimentary products".  Ricks words. Felt good to me.  The Ronsen became more of a hybrid hammer and our respective tonal pendulums swung in each others direction.  The Renner needing less needling than previously and the Ronsen utilizing small amounts of needling to open up. The tone of both is a dark clear sound.    Occasionally I use the Renner Weickerts/Blue points for specific applications or by request.   The tone and feedback on the Ronsen Product is stupendous and I hear that the Renner product has as many fans. Such a great deal for technicians!!   Therefore I still say, Hammer sampling is a smart maneuver when determining which brand and version of hammer to choose.   Rule of thumb ...the stiffer the soundboard the stiffer the hammer required. Or sometimes tonal or voicing preference. <div> </div> <div> </div> <div style="clear:both">Dale S. Erwin www.Erwinspiano.com 209-577-8397 209-985-0990 Ronsen hammers/prep Sitka Sound boards Belly packages </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message----- From: Paul T Williams <pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu> To: pianotech@ptg.org Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 12:36 pm Subject: Re: [pianotech] Petrof grands <div id="AOLMsgPart_2_d7db76e5-2a92-463b-81b7-c87fd091618a"> Thanks, Dale, Yes, strange design. why add weight and then add weight? There's got to be some sort of law!!  It was pretty tough getting the action out of the piano to the bench!  I thought I was grabbing an old Mason and Hamlin concert grand action or the very worst Steinway action from the late 70's. I'll have Arnold biceps by the time this project is done :>) My plan is remove as much hammer weight and shank weight (these are baseball bats with a very large hammer attached!) as I can and see where I am there.  These are really monster hammers...lots of felt I can remove.  Wondering what might happen to the tone, though.  Would you suggest the hammers you've been talking about?  Or Renner ultra lights, or something else?  Silly, of course youre going to suggest yours!  My bad.   It's all on the Lied's budget, which of course, is also crushed by our current budget cuts, so I need to try to save the originals.  I'm now putting the proposal forth to them and will also include the option of new ham-shanks.  I didn't ask you privately before, but could you send me your price list for pre-hung ham-shanks to <a href="mailto:pwilliams4@unl.edu">pwilliams4@unl.edu</a> ? I'll have another piano I really want to do for my own inventory after this project is finished. (Yamaha C-2) I need this as soon as you can, so I have something to work with. Thanks! Paul T. Williams RPT Piano Technician School of Music 5 Westbrook Bldg. University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0100 <a href="mailto:pwilliams4@unl.edu">pwilliams4@unl.edu</a> <table width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td>From: </td><td>Dale Erwin <<a href="mailto:erwinspiano@aol.com">erwinspiano@aol.com</a>> </td></tr><tr valign="top"> <td>To: </td><td><a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> </td></tr><tr valign="top"> <td>Date: </td><td>06/29/2011 01:28 PM </td></tr><tr valign="top"> <td>Subject: </td><td>Re: [pianotech] Petrof grands</td></tr></tbody></table> <hr> Hey Paul  I like these pianos tonally but the action guys ...what were they thinking?  Here is the short version.    Nice action ratio. Its 5 or 5.3 to 1. Then they shot themselves in the foot by installing hammers that weigh over 1o grams in the bass and on into the trebles. SO they over powered the action ratio with hammer weight. Then added lots of lead and maybe a wippen assist spring and viola ....an action that's heavy aaaaand there's no up-weight either. Solution :....remove hammer weight or install new lighter  hammers. Then with the hammers lifted out of the way.... weaken wippen springs till the weight of the wippen is barely supported, Or just starting to show that it wants to rise.....then re-weight keys with springs engaged. Now it works Dale S. Erwin <a>www.Erwinspiano.com</a> 209-577-8397 209-985-0990 Ronsen hammers/prep Sitka Sound boards Belly packages -----Original Message----- From: Paul T Williams <<a href="mailto:pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu">pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu</a>> To: <a href="mailto:pianotech@ptg.org">pianotech@ptg.org</a> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 9:30 am Subject: [pianotech] Petrof grands Hi All, What do you folks think about Petrof Grands?  We were just donated a 1985 6'5" Walnut Polish grand.  It's been maintained extremely well, but is about the heaviest playing piano I've ever come across.  I've never worked on a Petrof grand, only a couple of uprights in my 20 years in this crazy business. It was delivered to my shop this morning and will probably live in our University's "welcome center" lobby, so only played a few times per year.  It's really heavy and built like a tank like old Mason and Hamlins.   I'm considering trying the TouchRail system from PitchLock Co.  Has anyone tried it out? Thanks Paul </div>  </div>