<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1>Thank you for taking the time to respond.  Let’s hope that it does not end here and a wide open discussion will continue amongst the many parties involved.  <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>I think that it is instructive that you are still waiting to be wowed by the Higher Logic software.  The interface is based on pizza logic – a little this and a little that, here, there, and everywhere.  It still astounds me that the new forum was launched without help files.  It is hard to believe that patches here and there can ever make this a sensible, friendly, and easy to use program.  That would require a groundfloor rewrite by people who actually know something about interface design, and none of them seem to work for Higher Logic.<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>What the powers that be and those who are in charge of implementing this system need to hear is that most of us think that it is a world class piece of garbage that we hate and don’t want to use.  A majority of users have already voted with their feet and no longer participate.  <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Will Truitt   <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p><o:p> </o:p>From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ron Berry Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 9:14 PM To: pianotech@ptg.org Subject: [pianotech] New Forum<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>I have been following the recent discussions on Pianotech regarding the new <a href="http://my.ptg.org">my.ptg.org</a> system. First I need to talk about how we got here. The Board was looking for a system to integrate the member information, the accounting, and the web site. They were faced with major upgrades of servers and software whether or not they went to a “cloud based system.” The Member Max software which runs the member data and the regular web site was chosen by staff and Board. That part of the equation seems to have worked fairly well. There have been login issues because of the attempt to have Single Sign On with both <a href="http://www.ptg.org/">www.ptg.org</a> and <a href="http://my.ptg.org">my.ptg.org</a>, but things are working there reasonably well. The fact that so many members don't know how to log in or what their credentials are makes us believe that many of them were not logging in to the member area of the old site. I still have a login issue with IE9, but it's not unusual for things to break when new IE versions come out. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Higher Logic was chosen because it is a social media site that integrates with Member Max. There are features that set up committee forums just by assigning committees to the members' record. This will keep past work from committees even when the committee membership changes. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>There were many parts of the implementation of these two sites where I was not involved until after things had been basically set up. I did look at Higher Logic in the early stages, and it looked quite capable of doing what we need. The set up is very complicated, and a small change one place can cause other problems you didn't expect. A quote from Andy Rudoff: “All software is broken until you prove that it works.” I am still waiting for something about this software to wow me. In many ways we are being Beta testers for Higher Logic and Member Max. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>I personally tend to read the forums in Gmail either on my computer or iPhone. It seems to work better to respond within the web forum. I completely understand about losing work that you have typed. I am composing this in Open Office and will paste it in. The problem for anyone making software like this is that you are competing with Microsoft, Apple and Google who have infinite resources. Gmail is a remarkable environment, and making all that work within a web based system is amazing. I really think that many of you prefer the email versions, because you can use any email reader and customize it the way you want it. Higher Logic gives you one web interface to view data. I do agree that the web format does not make good use of screen space. With email I have a dense amount of information that I can scan quickly. Since Higher Logic does not have snippets of the message it is harder to tell what is there. If I am scanning through all the current messages one by one, then at Higher Logic they all end up on one page, and that is easier. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>I am very concerned that the momentum that was built up over the years of Pianotech and CAUT emails has come to a near halt. Too many of the messages are about the system itself and not enough about pianos. I know that every person on the lists values the list and that is why they are passionate about them. Some of your messages have talked about how you want quick and seamless communication. I would totally agree. Just as you should not be aware that you are playing a piano when you are making music, you shouldn't have to think about the computer when you are expressing your ideas. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Apostrophe issue<o:p></o:p>The mangling of apostrophes in Don Mannino's post was not just a Higher Logic issue. It is an HTML issue. They were mangled on my Gmail display on my iPhone although the windows computer showed them properly in Gmail. I have dealt with that issue for years on the older system on the convention registration page and on the chapter web sites. That said, a piece of commercial software should be able to deal with it. I understand that people are frustrated and notice every issue because they don't like the software. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Archives<o:p></o:p>Transferring the archives over to the new system is a process that PTG has to pay for. That is why there will only be two transfers. We did a test, and there are many archives at <a href="http://my.ptg.org">my.ptg.org</a> in Pianotech Archives and CAUT Archives. Before the old server is closed down, the full archives will be imported. The search function for them on <a href="http://my.ptg.org">my.ptg.org</a> works well and will be an advantage. On the old server I used Google to search the archives in the past. I have submitted a search request to Google during this transition but they seem to not archive pages from a mail.domain. Since the very beginning of this project, I have said that the highest priority is the Pianotech archives. Yet they will end up being one of the last pieces to be fixed. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>I had intended to be out of the webmaster job in March, but I was asked to stay on another 6 months to ease the implementation. I have found it somewhat frustrating to be expected to fix things when I don't have the access to fix them. We are in the process of transferring much of the regular maintenance of the site over to Home Office staff. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Don Mannino's recent post is very well thought out and direct. Communication with Board members is what needs to happen. We have the convention coming up and positive criticism and solutions will be the key. The Pianotech meeting at the convention should be one not to miss. I will also be available at the convention outside the registration area to help you.  <o:p></o:p> -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ronald Berry Piano Service Indianapolis, IN 317-255-8213 <a href="mailto:ron@berrypiano.com" target="_blank">ron@berrypiano.com</a> <a href="http://www.berrypiano.com" target="_blank">http://www.berrypiano.com</a> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ask me about Healthy Chocolate! <a href="http://www.berrygoodchocolate.com" target="_blank">http://www.berrygoodchocolate.com</a> Public Key <a href="http://www.berrypiano.com/key/Ron_Berry.txt" target="_blank">http://www.berrypiano.com/key/Ron_Berry.txt</a><o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p></div></body></html>