<font color='navy' size='2' face='Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif'><br> <font color="navy" face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif" size="2">  Hey Mark<br>    I get where you're coming from and I value the organization. You have made cogent and persuasive points. We don't really know each other so may I ask , do you teach?  Perhaps our experience is vastly different. <br> <br> I think we will agree to disagree...or maybe not. I am not holding a contrarian opinion just for the sake of it. When on the occasions I have taught it was usually 2 period classes. The class prep prior to the convention and trying to get everything done in the shop so as to be able to be able to afford to do it this usually left me exhausted and often I missed out on far more classes than the percentages you state. Being in Calif. I often must travel a far distance to different time zones which means I always lose time and start at a deficit so I'm always trying to catch up on the energy level.<br> <b><font color="crimson" size="4">More </font></b><font color="crimson"><font size="4">Comments below</font><br> </font> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style="clear:both"><font size="1"><b><font color="indigo" face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif">Dale S. Erwin<br> www.Erwinspiano.com<br> </font></b></font><span style="font-style: italic;"><b><font size="1"><br> </font></b></span><br> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div> <br> </div> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black"> From: Mark Purney <mark.purney@mesapiano.com><br> To: pianotech@ptg.org<br> Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2011 10:41 pm<br> Subject: Re: [pianotech] teaching money,(was Irritated ) <br> <br> My opinion is that it is quite reasonable if you consider it a "stipend" or "honorarium," which is what the reimbursement was originally intended to be - not payment for services rendered. But when you start to give something as a token of appreciation, people take it for granted, and then it becomes a slap in the face to them instead of a "thank you."<br> <b> I don't follow this at all.</b> <b>What's a slap in the face is the new comp. plan which is a further reduction in incentives to teach. I see it as a hoop driven protocol now. You do so much and....<br>   I see it as a lack of appreciation and help to get there</b>.<b> Was the hotel cost on the day you teach, food, registration costs and small<br>  per diem to instructors really breaking the bank?</b> <b>Really? or does the organization need to plan differently? or see things differently.<br>  Maybe I'm out of step here but I've been round long enough I think that I have  given back of my time talents and treasure to others in quite an unselfish was. It is my repayment of gifts received.<br>    My wife tells me that when I would go teach in the early years she and the kids (4) lived on Peanut butter and scraped by while I was gone. It was an important sacrifice & I could not have afforded it without the previous compensations.. Food for thought.<br> </b> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_da170a45-eb86-47f4-9209-def522006deb"> <br> And what about the value of teaching. Is it not rewarding?<b>Yes it can be very, no argument. It can be stressful and nerve racking as well.<br>  </b>Do we not learn and grow when we teach others? <br> <b>Yes, and that isn't what the issue is for me. I recently taught an Actions by design class in Reno, a one day seminar with Ray Negron of Ronsen<br> It required at least 40 hours to do  the power point, written material and yes...the time off work to prep it. It took considerable planning for props and ideas to make a concise and understandable presentation. </b><b>The usual strain on the family by being absorbed in it.</b> <b>Present physically absent mentally.<br>  Hey, its reality. Yes and even thought there was a product to be promoted there was also the help to make sense of the action in all its complexities. Annnnd....even In spite of the mixed business motives the reno Chapter paid us to come.... Put us up and fed us</b>.<br> <br>  We have to keep in mind that although some instructors are unhappy with the compensation offered, and will stop participating because of it, there are other instructors who feel it should be a volunteer activity, and they actually feel strange accepting a check.<br> <b> Perhaps they have other forms of income in there family that allow them to have the luxury of holding that position</b>. <b>Many do...we do not.</b><br>  I'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong, but it's important to acknowledge the vast difference in opinions on this matter with people on either end of the spectrum and many somewhere in between. Pleasing everyone is simply not possible in matters like this.<br> <b> Yes I understand this full well.  I've never heard anyone openly voice there opinion about this though many of said it. Its like the elephant in the room. I suppose it will color my options with the organization branding me as a heretic. If it does, so be it... .</b><br> <b> If no one ever says anything then the pendulum never swings either.</b><br> <br> And I really don't understand how vendor-sponsored classes is going to limit the attraction of the institute or cause a downward spiral. Some of the best instructors and classes I've attended have been vendor-sponsored classes. Many of these instructors are sponsored specifically *because* they are incredibly gifted as technicians and teachers.<br> <b><br> Yes and conversely some of<u> the best ones</u> are the private independent shops with out bias towards a product.</b> <b>I've been on both sides of this fence</b>.<b> Both legitimate sides</b><br> <br>  Often, these are the people who get hired by major manufacturers because they are so good at what they do, and are great communicators. Others are self-sponsored because they've used their extraordinary abilities to become successful with their own businesses. Vendors play an important role, and they do a lot for the PTG to help make the Convention a success every year. But they don't run the Institute or dictate how the PTG operates. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement, and the members who attend are the ones who reap the most benefit. <br> <b> Clearly I get that. Again not my total focus here</b>.<br> <b> Mark<br>   Thanks for taking the time to state your side of it. I appreciate the open dialogue<br>   Kindest regards<br>   Dael Erwin</b><br> <br> <br> <br> On 6/29/2011 7:18 PM, Ed Foote wrote: <blockquote type="cite"><font color="black" face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif" size="2"> <div style="font-family: helvetica,arial; font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> <div id="AOLMsgPart_1_6712fd5f-f365-4d0e-873e-d2a8c375fe1f"><font color="navy" face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif" size="2"><font color="navy" face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, Serif" size="2"> <div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="arial, helvetica"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000080" face="Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif"> Dale and Mark write the following: </font></font></div> <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt; color: black;"> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_59ac4774-0145-4200-8d35-a7971cb1b266"> <u><br> >>All instructors that are willing to help perpetuate excellence in the continued education of our membership are valued, regardless of whether they are sponsored by a manufacturer or not</u>.  <br> <b> Understood. But money still is the issue. The dues and convention fees should be higher.  You get what you pay for</b>.<<</div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_59ac4774-0145-4200-8d35-a7971cb1b266"><br> </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_59ac4774-0145-4200-8d35-a7971cb1b266">    Agreed.   It is easy to say, as an instructor, I am "valued".  Of course I am.  The PTG, in order to maximize the profit of the convention,  would like me to prepare and teach a class for free, pay my own transportation and room, and pay a full entrance fee to attend a convention in which I will miss a significant portion of classes in order to present my own?  What a bargain!   There is no way to justify that sort of expense unless I have something to sell.  I don't have anything to sell, just some experience gleaned from making mistakes for the last 35 years. If that isn't worth at least the entrance fee and a room, then I can't afford to be a PTG teacher. </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_59ac4774-0145-4200-8d35-a7971cb1b266">   My last convention was full of classes taught by people that were basically advertising their wares or services. Their cost of attending is part of their advertising budget, and selling their services or wares can make the convention a profitable venture.  Those techs that simply have valuable experience to share will gradually become extinct. This is a loss, since the original idea of the PTG was to have an organization of working technicians that could share their expertise.  Now, we have an "institute for profit", and the PTG doesn't want to pay for the content.   </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_59ac4774-0145-4200-8d35-a7971cb1b266">   On this course, our future is going to be one of vendor instructors, and I really think that is going to limit the attraction of the institute.  It looks like a downward spiral to me.  </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_59ac4774-0145-4200-8d35-a7971cb1b266">Regards, </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_59ac4774-0145-4200-8d35-a7971cb1b266">Ed Foote RPT</div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_59ac4774-0145-4200-8d35-a7971cb1b266">   </div> <div id="AOLMsgPart_0_59ac4774-0145-4200-8d35-a7971cb1b266"> </div> </div> </font></font> </div> </div> </font> </blockquote> <br> </div>  </div> </font></font>