<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:ns0="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> <head> <meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">  <style>  </style>  </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple> <div class=Section1> Here’s my updated protocol for using CA glue on tuning pins. I’ve had lots of good feedback from other techs who have adopted it.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Use thin CA glue. Don't use accelerator. You want the glue to soak into the wood with deep penetration. The accelerator would cause it to set prematurely. When you give the pin its initial turn after treatment, you will find there is not much glue left in the joint to bond the pin to the wood. It snaps loose pretty easily. It is increased pressure from the pin block that tightens the pin and this is exactly what we want.<o:p></o:p> <![if !vml]> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 align=left> <tr> <td width=8 height=0></td> </tr> <tr> <td></td> <td><img width=349 height=250 src="cid:image001.jpg@01CC3B41.A4604F70" v:shapes="_x0000_s1026"></td> </tr> </table> <![endif]> <o:p></o:p> Fill a hypo oiler with the glue which should be about 2 oz. You can also use bulb syringes available at your hobby store (see picture). Lay the piano on its back. Apply glue to base of pin very much like you would apply the old pin tightener. I squeeze the bottle for 1/2 to 3/4 of second at each pin. Go through all pins twice. You should end up with about 1/4 of the bottle left.<o:p></o:p> Don't use more than 2 oz. That would be overkill. It just doesn't take as much glue as you think it should. This glue has tremendous capillary action. Put a couple of drops on the end of a small dowel rod and watch it wick up the grain.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The glue has such positive capillary action that you really don't even need to lay the piano down. (It is more convenient and a little safer to lay it<o:p></o:p> down.) To apply vertically, just put the tip of the hypo oiler at the top of the pin at the base and squeeze out a little glue. The trick is to stop squeezing before the glue starts running down the plate. Have some Q-tips handy to mop up any excess that does run down the plate, or it will go on down the strings onto the damper felt. Ask me how I know. I have had near 100% success in the last two years just applying the glue with the piano vertical. Lay it down if it makes you feel better. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> If you are doing a grand be sure to put newspaper between the pin block and the action, though I've never had any glue make it to the newspaper like I have with regular Pin-Tite. You could also remove the action, flip the piano upside down and apply the glue to the bottom of the hole. But that really isn't necessary.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Let it sit for about 20 minutes. When you use that much glue without accelerator it takes awhile to cure. 20 minutes usually gives enough time for the pins to be tight enough to hold, but you really don't need to wait. If you have laid down the piano, lightly mist accelerator over the tuning pin field before setting back upright to make sure all puddles are set up or else they will run and glue will go places you don’t want it to. <o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> If a pin isn't tight enough to hold, just go on and tune the others. It will be tight enough when you are done with the rest of the piano. I have found them to be even tighter after several days. I have had one or two problem pins that didn't tighten enough. I removed them, squirted glue directly into the hole and immediately re-inserted the pin. Worked beautifully.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I charge the equivalent of about 3 tunings for this 30 minute procedure and give it an 8 year warranty. The 8 year warranty is a value added service that justifies the expense and really sells it for the customer. Every customer who has purchased this work has been very happy about the price. I just did one yesterday for a church. They are thrilled. They still know that the piano needs rebuilt or replaced. They just don't have the money to do that, but they do have $200-300 to pay for a guarantee that they can make it 8 more years with the piano they have. Remember they aren't paying for the 30 minute service; they are paying for the value added guarantee. And you are saving them thousands of dollars to get them through 8 more years.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I have been treating pins with CA for many years now.  Worst case scenario is that you might have a piano with 3-4 very problem child pins after a few years. If that happens, pull out last resort tricks: pull pin and squirt glue in hole, use oversize pins, use fiberglass resin, or very last resort, drill it out and plug it. Very worst case scenario I could refund their money. But generally I could nurse any piano along for a few more years even before I had the CA glue trick.<o:p></o:p> Now I am even more confident that I can get them through another 8 years with the CA glue.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> If you don’t have a good hobby store nearby that sells good CA, you can get it from Kwick Kleen (www.kwickkleen.com). Kwick Kleen is always fresh. You can call to order with a credit card at (888) 222-9767. I'd recommend a half dozen bottles of thin, one bottle of medium and an 8 oz bottle of accelerator for a start up order. And be sure to get a dozen hypo oilers from Schaff. Some guys like to use medical syringes. I prefer hypo oilers to those syringes, but I like the bulb syringes in the picture above the best. Whatever you use, the tips will plug eventually, so get plenty of them. I peel the label off an empty glue bottle and put it on the hypo oiler so I know what is in there (doesn't everyone have a dozen hypos on their bench with various unknown fluids in them?). When the tip plugs I just change tips and throw the new hypo bottle away. Wish I could buy just the tips somewhere.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Updated protocol for really tight bushings: If the glue does not seem to be penetrating well, drill a small hole through the bushing at an angle towards the pin, to allow the glue to bypass the bushing and travel down to the pinblock.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Dean<o:p></o:p> Dean W May                        (812) 235-5272 voice and text<o:p></o:p> PianoRebuilders.com           (888) DEAN-MAY         <o:p></o:p> <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:PLACE u2:st="on"><U2:CITY u1:st="on"><ns0:City w:insAuthor="Dean May" w:insDate="2011-07-05T18:20:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Dean May" w:endInsDate="2011-07-05T18:20:00Z">Terre Haute</ns0:City></U2:CITY> <ns0:State w:insAuthor="Dean May" w:insDate="2011-07-05T18:20:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Dean May" w:endInsDate="2011-07-05T18:20:00Z"><U2:STATE u1:st="on">IN</U2:STATE></ns0:State> <ns0:PostalCode w:insAuthor="Dean May" w:insDate="2011-07-05T18:20:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Dean May" w:endInsDate="2011-07-05T18:20:00Z"><U2:POSTALCODE u1:st="on">47802           Give us a LIKE on Facebook! Go to PianoRebuilders.com</ns0:PostalCode></U2:POSTALCODE><o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </div> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of lee innocent Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 3:18 PM To: pianotech Subject: [pianotech] CA Glue and Tuning Pins<o:p></o:p> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> Hello All,<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> I am considering CAing an upright piano, I have never tried this method before, always repinned.  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> What I would like to know is:<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> 1.  Is this a permanent fix for loose pins<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> 2.  What is the best method for a thorough job<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> 3.  How much time should I allocate<o:p></o:p> </div> <div>  <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Thanks in advance <o:p></o:p> </div> <div> Lee<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </body> </html>