Which is precisely my point. You don't care about the functioning of the organization. Some of us do. Those of us who are members have a vested interest in the organization doing well. Some of us are willing to accept an initial compromise in the functioning of the list to improve (maintain) the functioning of the organization as a whole. Without the organization, there is no list, Duaine. <div> <br></div><div>William R. Monroe</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Duaine Hechler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dahechler@att.net">dahechler@att.net</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Again, William,<br> <br> My membership DOES NOT come into play in this discussion - SO - just drop it.<br> <br> FYI, I was a member until I could not afford the dues and the overall subject matter did not include much about the antique player systems.<br> <br> PLUS, as in what a lot of other persons are saying, who gives a rats arse about the home office - to us (non-members included), it's all about the tech list (functionality, ease of use, syncing with other devices, etc)<br> <br> Duaine<div class="im"><br> <br> On 07/20/2011 10:45 AM, William Monroe wrote:<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="im"> Again, Duaine,<br> <br> It goes beyond the list serv and it's function. It encompasses all of the PTG organizational functions as well.<br> <br> As a non-member I can see how that is meaningless to you, but to some of us it does matter.<br> <br> William R. Monroe<br> <br> <br> <br> <br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Duaine Hechler <<a href="mailto:dahechler@att.net" target="_blank">dahechler@att.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dahechler@att.net" target="_blank">dahechler@att.net</a>>> wrote:<br> <br> Here we go again .........<br> <br> I thought this subject was supposed to be banned - I know I got my last email "slapped" for bringing this up again.<br> <br> So now that it is here again, I'll chime in again.<br> <br> Comparison of the new list, is like the Edsel.<br> <br> It was ahead of it's time ..... not well accepted ..... and became a rare antique very quickly.<br> <br> I see the new list going in the same direction.<br> <br> As you can see, this was submitted under the old list - only.<br> <br> Regards, Duaine<br> <br> P.S. What happened to the old adage - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ?!?!?!?!?<br> <br> On 07/20/2011 09:11 AM, William Monroe wrote:<br> <br> Will,<br> <br> I can't say that I condone Israel's approach to "encouraging" everyone to use the new system. I can say,<br> however, that your suggestion, you quoted,<br> <br> "If a thing can be done adequately by means of one, it is superfluous to do it by means of several; for we<br> observe that nature does not employ two instruments [if] one suffice”. That’s a pretty good measure for any<br> software interface design. By that measure, to claim that the new HL forum software represents a paradigm<br> shift is laughable."<br> <br> It is essential that everyone who reads this forum (and who will eventually be using the new system)<br> understands that the paradigm shift (it really is) reaches far beyond email lists. The new software works<br> wonderfully for so much of what the home office needs it to do to track and maintain membership,<br> communications, and the integrating so many needs for the organization - of which the email list is only one.<br> <br> Please understand, I value the list as much as anyone, and I don't mean to imply that the new system is as<br> simple as the old. Neither do I intend to denigrate any of it's users. However, there are other<br> considerations for PTG besides the list. The new software does a remarkable job filling the needs of the PTG<br> and incorporating the lists as well. I'll say it again because it is extremely important that we on the list<br> fully understand: the needs of PTG are much more than just the list.<br> <br> To be sure, the list is important and it was considered. And, it does continue to function on the new<br> software. It is absolutely different. It is in some ways more troublesome. It is in some ways better. List<br> folks (and I include myself in that number) need to move past the initial frustrations, log on, take the time<br> to get set up as your needs see fit, and learn to use it. If we simply refuse to use it, it will never work<br> for us. I'm discovering that as I use it more, it becomes vastly simpler.<br> <br> Again, the new software is a big step forward for the PTG on the organizational level. It may complicate the<br> list function for a bit until we all take the time to learn to use it effectively, but it will happen.<br> <br> William R. Monroe<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Encore Pianos <<a href="mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net" target="_blank">encorepianos@metrocast.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net" target="_blank">encorepianos@<u></u>metrocast.net</a>><br> </div></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"> <mailto:<a href="mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net" target="_blank">encorepianos@<u></u>metrocast.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:encorepianos@metrocast.net" target="_blank">encorepianos@<u></u>metrocast.net</a>>>> wrote:<br> <br> Dear Isreal:<br> <br> Hmmmm…. “:fellow luddites”, “horse and buggy drivers complaining how difficult it is to start a car”,<br> “horseshit”, “can the attitude”, “small but loud group who refuse to develop basic web skills” “files YOU<br> PEOPLE<br> were shoving onto my computer (caps added by me, wow, a conspiracy, what fun!) “massaging each other’s egos”<br> <br> And now for the real kicker, “the relatively minor glitches that any paradigm shift entails”. PARADIGM<br> SHIFT?????!!!!!!!!, Isn’t that a bit like a 2 ½ foot tall guy dunking the ball into a basket 2 feet off the<br> ground and claiming “player of the year?”<br> <br> Jon Page doesn’t need me to defend him and I won’t speak for him. I will say that I have met Jon and spent a<br> little time with him, and have followed his posts on the forum over the past years. Somehow, luddite never<br> enters my mind when I think of Jon. And please note that the group of people you describe as luddites and<br> horse<br> and buggy drivers includes the following people, if we are including those who have expressed their lack of<br> enthusiasm for the new forum: Del Fandrich, Ron Nossaman, Dale Erwin, David Andersen, and David Love;<br> amongst<br> many ohers.<br> <br> I admire both Del and Ron for their approach to problem solving and design, because they so well apply these<br> variations on “Occam’s Razor”, “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication” and “Entities must not be<br> multiplied<br> beyond necessity”. It is always a sign of an elegant and penetrating mind to seek the simplest and most<br> direct<br> solution.that fulfills all necessary criteria.<br> <br> I think this saying from Saint Thomas Aquinas is most topical when thinking of software, particularly the HL<br> PIanotech web software: "If a thing can be done adequately by means of one, it is superfluous to do it by<br> means of<br> several; for we observe that nature does not employ two instruments [if] one suffice”. That’s a pretty good<br> measure for any software interface design. By that measure, to claim that the new HL forum software<br> represents a<br> paradigm shift is laughable.<br> <br> Will Truitt<br> <br> <br> <br> -- Duaine Hechler<br> Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ<br> Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding<br> Reed Organ Society Member<br> Florissant, MO 63034<br></div></div> <a href="tel:%28314%29%20838-5587" value="+13148385587" target="_blank">(314) 838-5587</a> <tel:%28314%29%20838-5587><br> <a href="mailto:dahechler@att.net" target="_blank">dahechler@att.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:dahechler@att.net" target="_blank">dahechler@att.net</a>><br> <a href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com" target="_blank">www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com</a> <<a href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com" target="_blank">http://www.<u></u>hechlerpianoandorgan.com</a>><div class="im"> <br> --<br> Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years<br> <br> <br> <br> </div></blockquote><div><div></div><div class="h5"> <br> <br> -- <br> Duaine Hechler<br> Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ<br> Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding<br> Reed Organ Society Member<br> Florissant, MO 63034<br> <a href="tel:%28314%29%20838-5587" value="+13148385587" target="_blank">(314) 838-5587</a><br> <a href="mailto:dahechler@att.net" target="_blank">dahechler@att.net</a><br> <a href="http://www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com" target="_blank">www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com</a><br> --<br> Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years<br> <br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br> </div>